Film: Birdman (2014)

[epilogue]

If you're gonna go in with THAT attitude, don't bother. Sheesh.

My attitude just reflects my interest level based on what I know about the movie, Innaritu, and my own taste. But, of course, I will watch it with the same even-handedness I go into every movie with.

There he is! Good man.

I've only seen 21 Grams and Babel, which I adored and really liked (respectively). I gather you're not a fan of his other work?

I've seen Babel and Biutiful (He did that, right?), neither of which I liked.

Yeah, he did both of those. Biutiful is another one I keep meaning to see, but haven't. I had the physical disc through Netflix in my apartment for about a year and never watched it. Finally sent it back for something else. Now, I'm dying to see it again because it turns out I really love this director.

[epilogue]

Amores Perros is good. I agree with Orpheus that it's about time he unclenched a little.

Another one, I've wanted to see since it was first released.

[LoathedVermin72]

During Babel and Biutiful, I was mostly just thinking "This guy is trying way too hard."

[epilogue]

During Babel and Biutiful, I was mostly just thinking "This guy is trying way too hard."

Interesting. I didn't have that feeling during Babel. But it did feel heavy. It didn't have the effortlessness of other similarly structured films.

21 Grams, on the other hand, breezes by. I'm not sure you would like it, but the structure is fantastic. And the cast is outstanding. I really fell for the camera tricks and the themes. That movie means a lot to me. I'd put it in second place behind Birdman, though.

[LoathedVermin72]

During Babel and Biutiful, I was mostly just thinking "This guy is trying way too hard."

Interesting. I didn't have that feeling during Babel. But it did feel heavy. It didn't have the effortlessness of other similarly structured films.

21 Grams, on the other hand, breezes by. I'm not sure you would like it, but the structure is fantastic. And the cast is outstanding. I really fell for the camera tricks and the themes. That movie means a lot to me. I'd put it in second place behind Birdman, though.

I have been planning on watching that and Ameros Perros forever, but I've just been put off by his other stuff. I feel similarly about Alfonso Cuaron. There's an ostentatiousness to their films I find very off-putting.

[Alex]

During Babel and Biutiful, I was mostly just thinking "This guy is trying way too hard."

Interesting. I didn't have that feeling during Babel. But it did feel heavy. It didn't have the effortlessness of other similarly structured films.

21 Grams, on the other hand, breezes by. I'm not sure you would like it, but the structure is fantastic. And the cast is outstanding. I really fell for the camera tricks and the themes. That movie means a lot to me. I'd put it in second place behind Birdman, though.

I have been planning on watching that and Ameros Perros forever, but I've just been put off by his other stuff. I feel similarly about Alfonso Cuaron. There's an ostentatiousness to their films I find very off-putting.

oh, you lizard-loving spartan you. c'mere and give alex a hug.

[epilogue]

During Babel and Biutiful, I was mostly just thinking "This guy is trying way too hard."

Interesting. I didn't have that feeling during Babel. But it did feel heavy. It didn't have the effortlessness of other similarly structured films.

21 Grams, on the other hand, breezes by. I'm not sure you would like it, but the structure is fantastic. And the cast is outstanding. I really fell for the camera tricks and the themes. That movie means a lot to me. I'd put it in second place behind Birdman, though.

I have been planning on watching that and Ameros Perros forever, but I've just been put off by his other stuff. I feel similarly about Alfonso Cuaron. There's an ostentatiousness to their films I find very off-putting.

Ostentatious is the last word I would use. But I suppose I could see how it could come across that way. Especially with Cuaron. While I haven't seen Gravity, I do think Cuaron is fucking brilliant. Children of Men and Y Tu Mama Tambien are wonderful, devastating films. I personally didn't find anything showy or pretentious about those films. And Prisoner of Azkaban is still my favorite in the Harry Potter series; one of the few times the filmmaker was able to enhance (and even exceed) the books.

[LoathedVermin72]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The Cuaron (perhaps with the exception of Y tu mama tambien and maybe Azkaban) and Inarritu films I've seen seem very impressed with themselves. They come across first and foremost as declarations of their own greatness rather than genuinely good movies. It's like Cuaron and Inarritu are obsessed with announcing their trademark styles/approaches as loudly as possible. The greats know how to let that stuff happen naturally, without forcing the point.

[LoathedVermin72]

During Babel and Biutiful, I was mostly just thinking "This guy is trying way too hard."

Interesting. I didn't have that feeling during Babel. But it did feel heavy. It didn't have the effortlessness of other similarly structured films.

21 Grams, on the other hand, breezes by. I'm not sure you would like it, but the structure is fantastic. And the cast is outstanding. I really fell for the camera tricks and the themes. That movie means a lot to me. I'd put it in second place behind Birdman, though.

I have been planning on watching that and Ameros Perros forever, but I've just been put off by his other stuff. I feel similarly about Alfonso Cuaron. There's an ostentatiousness to their films I find very off-putting.

oh, you lizard-loving spartan you. c'mere and give alex a hug.

*hugs*

[epilogue]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The Cuaron (perhaps with the exception of Y tu mama tambien and maybe Azkaban) and Inarritu films I've seen seem very impressed with themselves. They come across first and foremost as declarations of their own greatness rather than genuinely good movies. It's like Cuaron and Inarritu are obsessed with announcing their trademark styles/approaches as loudly as possible. The greats know how to let that stuff happen naturally, without forcing the point.

I guess I don't hear the shouting. They do have big styles, obviously. But they've never felt forced down my throat. They don't feel inflated or egotistical. I don't know.

Who are some the greats that let their stuff happen naturally?

[LoathedVermin72]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The Cuaron (perhaps with the exception of Y tu mama tambien and maybe Azkaban) and Inarritu films I've seen seem very impressed with themselves. They come across first and foremost as declarations of their own greatness rather than genuinely good movies. It's like Cuaron and Inarritu are obsessed with announcing their trademark styles/approaches as loudly as possible. The greats know how to let that stuff happen naturally, without forcing the point.

I guess I don't hear the shouting. They do have big styles, obviously. But they've never felt forced down my throat. They don't feel inflated or egotistical. I don't know.

Who are some the greats that let their stuff happen naturally?

Roman Polanski and Anthony Mann are the two that come to mind immediately.

[epilogue]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The Cuaron (perhaps with the exception of Y tu mama tambien and maybe Azkaban) and Inarritu films I've seen seem very impressed with themselves. They come across first and foremost as declarations of their own greatness rather than genuinely good movies. It's like Cuaron and Inarritu are obsessed with announcing their trademark styles/approaches as loudly as possible. The greats know how to let that stuff happen naturally, without forcing the point.

I guess I don't hear the shouting. They do have big styles, obviously. But they've never felt forced down my throat. They don't feel inflated or egotistical. I don't know.

Who are some the greats that let their stuff happen naturally?

Roman Polanski and Anthony Mann are the two that come to mind immediately.

What am I missing in Polanski's work? I can't think of anything I've seen by him that would classify him as stylistic in the same way Cuaron and Inarritu are. I've seen a good handful of Polanski's films but I've never thought, ah! there's that trademark Polaski stuff!

[Malloy]

this is playing just a few blocks away from my house so i'll probably try to see it friday night

if there's a late enough showtime, this could double as a celebration of my 30th year of nebulous longing

vous devez demander le coeur, mon spoik

[LoathedVermin72]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The Cuaron (perhaps with the exception of Y tu mama tambien and maybe Azkaban) and Inarritu films I've seen seem very impressed with themselves. They come across first and foremost as declarations of their own greatness rather than genuinely good movies. It's like Cuaron and Inarritu are obsessed with announcing their trademark styles/approaches as loudly as possible. The greats know how to let that stuff happen naturally, without forcing the point.

I guess I don't hear the shouting. They do have big styles, obviously. But they've never felt forced down my throat. They don't feel inflated or egotistical. I don't know.

Who are some the greats that let their stuff happen naturally?

Roman Polanski and Anthony Mann are the two that come to mind immediately.

What am I missing in Polanski's work? I can't think of anything I've seen by him that would classify him as stylistic in the same way Cuaron and Inarritu are. I've seen a good handful of Polanski's films but I've never thought, ah! there's that trademark Polaski stuff!

You’re not the first person who’s told me that. And that’s part of what I love about him; his trademark style is so subtle and understated that it’s very easy to miss. Subtlety is really the keyword when you’re dealing with Polanski. It’s actually pretty difficult to put into words, but once you recognize it, it’s impossible to mistake. The cinematography, the shot composition, the performances, the scores, everything about his work always feels thoroughly Polanskian. There’s a certain dryness, a certain playfulness, a very low-key but very biting layer of black comedy and absurdity to everything he does, and it often revolves around the minutiae of scenes other filmmakers wouldn’t focus on. For example, one of my all-time favorite Polanski moments in the opening scene of The Ninth Gate. Pretty simple on the surface: a man writes out a note and hangs himself. But Polanski extracts this bizarre strain of black comedy and discomfort through the way he films it, focusing on the wobbling of the stool as the man struggles to overturn it, including the detail of the chandelier being pulled slightly out of the ceiling and causing pieces of plaster to fall onto the ornate rug beneath the man’s feet. It’s simultaneously grimly funny and eerily unsettling. There’s nothing tumescent or grandiose about his style, but it comes through in everything he makes in a very natural and very unique way. His films simply breathe their style instead of loudly announcing it.

[epilogue]

There’s a certain dryness, a certain playfulness, a very low-key but very biting layer of black comedy and absurdity to everything he does, and it often revolves around the minutiae of scenes other filmmakers wouldn’t focus on. For example, one of my all-time favorite Polanski moments in the opening scene of The Ninth Gate. Pretty simple on the surface: a man writes out a note and hangs himself. But Polanski extracts this bizarre strain of black comedy and discomfort through the way he films it, focusing on the wobbling of the stool as the man struggles to overturn it, including the detail of the chandelier being pulled slightly out of the ceiling and causing pieces of plaster to fall onto the ornate rug beneath the man’s feet. It’s simultaneously grimly funny and eerily unsettling. There’s nothing tumescent or grandiose about his style, but it comes through in everything he makes in a very natural and very unique way. His films simply breathe their style instead of loudly announcing it.

Well put. I'm a huge fan of The Ninth Gate, and while there's never been anything very humorous about that opening scene to me, I understand what you're driving it. And now that you've explained it, I can't say that you're wrong. And I'm really excited to go back to some of my favorite Polanski films and dig out what you're talking about.

It also helps me understand what you're saying about Cuaron and Inarritu. Again, agree to disagree, but I wouldn't say that their styles are ostentatious, just not as subtle as your tastes seem to flow. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get the feeling that those guys sit back and masturbate to their films while congratulating themselves on how visionary they are. Their work doesn't give me that impression. But, yes, their styles are certainly not as subtle as your description of Palanski.

Though, perhaps ironically in this context, my favorite moments in Birdman are the small, subtle moments, of which, there are plenty.

[Alex]

extolling the stylistic peccadilloes of tumescent rapists

[LoathedVermin72]

those guys sit back and masturbate to their films while congratulating themselves on how visionary they are.

Hahaha, this is a dead-on description of how I feel about them.

And there are some directors I love that I'm sure other people feel would fall into the category I'm putting Cuaron and Innaritu into, such as Kubrick, Fellini, and Refn, but even their stuff feels natural and earned to me.

[LoathedVermin72]

extolling the stylistic peccadilloes of tumescent rapists

[epilogue]

those guys sit back and masturbate to their films while congratulating themselves on how visionary they are.

Hahaha, this is a dead-on description of how I feel about them.

And there are some directors I love that I'm sure other people feel would fall into the category I'm putting Cuaron and Innaritu into, such as Kubrick, Fellini, and Refn, but even their stuff feels natural and earned to me.

Kubrick is maybe the best example for your case, I think. I can totally get on board saying Kubrick is a masterful director with a distinct style that doesn't cast an inescapable shadow over the film itself. Kubrick and David Lynch both are guys that, I'm pretty sure are/were legit geniuses, who have expressive and distinct styles, but don't get in their own way.

I would lump Inarritu in that category, for sure. Cuaron, while I still LOVE what he does, is maybe the bridge between the two. He does get in his own way sometimes, but I think, on the balance, he finds the right choices.

[epilogue]

The vocabulary of the alex account is the Innaritu of Red Mosquito.