@SkitchP wrote:It's a good trade for StL, but I dont love Jason Heyward. he's a guy that should be entering his prime and had a slugging percentage under .400 as a corner outfielder. Obviously he's very good defensively, but for Outfielders that value can fluctuate pretty dramatically. A good player sure, but I don't think this is as lopsided as it seems.
I think that really undervalues just how good Heyward is. When you say "he's a guy that should be entering his prime", I think you're ignoring the fact that he's 25 years old. Guys are usually considered prospects until 23-24, yet Heyward has a few outstanding seasons already. Defensive value can fluctuate, but he's been among the best at his position for three straight seasons. And power tends to peak later than most other tools, so it's not like his relatively poor slugging percentage is likely to flatline where it was in 2014.
Power was the only thing he didn't do extremely well last year. If he never develops beyond what he's done in his career so far, this is probably not a very good trade for Atlanta. If he ever finds that power (which wouldn't be unexpected at all)... then he's a superstar.
I didn't mean it to diminish Heyward, Just to point out that this isnt the absolute trainwreck of a deal from the Atlanta perspective that some are making it out to be. Heyward definitely has the potential (including power) to be a superstar, but right now he is a very good ballplayer who hasn't put it all together and isnt the guaranteed difference for St. Louis that some are making it out to be.
@SkitchP wrote:It's a good trade for StL, but I dont love Jason Heyward. he's a guy that should be entering his prime and had a slugging percentage under .400 as a corner outfielder. Obviously he's very good defensively, but for Outfielders that value can fluctuate pretty dramatically. A good player sure, but I don't think this is as lopsided as it seems.
I think that really undervalues just how good Heyward is. When you say "he's a guy that should be entering his prime", I think you're ignoring the fact that he's 25 years old. Guys are usually considered prospects until 23-24, yet Heyward has a few outstanding seasons already. Defensive value can fluctuate, but he's been among the best at his position for three straight seasons. And power tends to peak later than most other tools, so it's not like his relatively poor slugging percentage is likely to flatline where it was in 2014.
Power was the only thing he didn't do extremely well last year. If he never develops beyond what he's done in his career so far, this is probably not a very good trade for Atlanta. If he ever finds that power (which wouldn't be unexpected at all)... then he's a superstar.
I didn't mean it to diminish Heyward, Just to point out that this isnt the absolute trainwreck of a deal from the Atlanta perspective that some are making it out to be. Heyward definitely has the potential (including power) to be a superstar, but right now he is a very good ballplayer who hasn't put it all together and isnt the guaranteed difference for St. Louis that some are making it out to be.
I think the biggest issue for me is that the Braves certainly should have been able to get more out of it.
And I think, for St. Louis, this is the difference maker people are making it out to be. Before this move, their projected starting right fielder was Randal Grichuk. They upgraded from a decent prospect to a star. I think this pushes them way ahead of the rest of the division.
Biff Pocoroba wrote:I come back to lunch to find that out? I knew the Braves would make off season deals, more to come no doubt, but seems like a big give away.
Miller's a decent young pitcher, but there's no way that's the best they could do, is there? There had to be some team out there willing to up the offer.
What are your feelings on the Martin signing?
I love it. I'm not sure how much stock I put into the pitch-framing numbers that have come out the last few years, but regardless of just how much value you put in them, the Jays just went from the worst in the league to the best in the league. Now they have some flexibility to let Navarro be the DH/backup catcher or trade him for help elsewhere since he's still a good player.
The money doesn't really bother me because I don't believe it will get in the way of other moves, and the Jays had almost nothing committed beyond 2015 before Martin. I was confident heading into the offseason that the Jays would show a willingness to spend what they needed to compete, so now that they've made this move I feel even more confident that they're not done yet, especially since we've already heard they're still in on Lester and Miller despite this signing. They still need a LF, a 2B/3B (although they have decent enough options) and some bullpen help, but I think it will come.
I'm really excited to see what else will happen over the next couple months.
As a Cubs fan, I'm actually OK with this. While they really don't have huge options for this year other than sticking with what they have and going after Matt Weiters next year, I wouldn't have been comfortable for them, as an NL team, going to 5 years. The Blue Jays can at least DH him for the latter half of the contract.
Biff Pocoroba wrote:I come back to lunch to find that out? I knew the Braves would make off season deals, more to come no doubt, but seems like a big give away.
Miller's a decent young pitcher, but there's no way that's the best they could do, is there? There had to be some team out there willing to up the offer.
What are your feelings on the Martin signing?
I love it. I'm not sure how much stock I put into the pitch-framing numbers that have come out the last few years, but regardless of just how much value you put in them, the Jays just went from the worst in the league to the best in the league. Now they have some flexibility to let Navarro be the DH/backup catcher or trade him for help elsewhere since he's still a good player.
The money doesn't really bother me because I don't believe it will get in the way of other moves, and the Jays had almost nothing committed beyond 2015 before Martin. I was confident heading into the offseason that the Jays would show a willingness to spend what they needed to compete, so now that they've made this move I feel even more confident that they're not done yet, especially since we've already heard they're still in on Lester and Miller despite this signing. They still need a LF, a 2B/3B (although they have decent enough options) and some bullpen help, but I think it will come.
I'm really excited to see what else will happen over the next couple months.
As a Cubs fan, I'm actually OK with this. While they really don't have huge options for this year other than sticking with what they have and going after Matt Weiters next year, I wouldn't have been comfortable for them, as an NL team, going to 5 years. The Blue Jays can at least DH him for the latter half of the contract.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. That's definitely a big advantage for AL teams. They can also help reduce the wear and tear on catchers over the years by giving them a handful of games at DH over the course of the season if they're decent hitters, which Martin obviously is.
The Cubs are the kind of team I could see the Jays trying to trade Navarro to, too. I would like it if they can keep him and let him DH once in a while and give Martin some time off behind the plate, but they've needed Thole to catch Dickey up until now, so unless that changes Navarro probably has to go. One more year at a fairly cheap contract would be a solid bridge for a lot of teams.
I haven't had many opportunities the last couple decades. I need to take advantage when I get the chance.
It always pays off, like that big Reyes trade.
Hey, that trade still doesn't look too bad today. They have Buehrle and Reyes instead of Alvarez and Hechavarria, which is an expensive upgrade, but it's still a pretty substantial upgrade considering Hechavarria is so terrible.
They have the star players in place... now they're plugging the holes. Actually... I guess signing Martin is more like adding another star player than plugging a hole, but still...
I haven't had many opportunities the last couple decades. I need to take advantage when I get the chance.
It always pays off, like that big Reyes trade.
Hey, that trade still doesn't look too bad today. They have Buehrle and Reyes instead of Alvarez and Hechavarria, which is an expensive upgrade, but it's still a pretty substantial upgrade considering Hechavarria is so terrible.
They have the star players in place... now they're plugging the holes. Actually... I guess signing Martin is more like adding another star player than plugging a hole, but still...
2015 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!
TOTALLY. Ive decided I can root for the Jays in the east.
cutuphalfdead wrote:Also, why the fuck aren't you on twitter?
Idiot fucking Lions fans. I usually stay out of twitter arguments, etc. But during the Lions game people were absolutely being stupid as fuck. So I just logged off instead of engaging and getting madder.
cutuphalfdead wrote:Also, why the fuck aren't you on twitter?
Idiot fucking Lions fans. I usually stay out of twitter arguments, etc. But during the Lions game people were absolutely being stupid as fuck. So I just logged off instead of engaging and getting madder.
cutuphalfdead wrote:Also, why the fuck aren't you on twitter?
Idiot fucking Lions fans. I usually stay out of twitter arguments, etc. But during the Lions game people were absolutely being stupid as fuck. So I just logged off instead of engaging and getting madder.
