Vitalogy is 20...

[noneofyabidness]

I think the main issue with Dave A was, that he loved and relsihed the whole celebrity/rockstar lifestyle. Whereas Ed, and to some extent the rest of the band, weren't comfortable at all with it. I think a big part of the whole 'grunge' scene was that it wasn't cool to be famous and enjoy it at the same time.

The whole scene was about how to make as much money as possible while pretending to not like making money. Dave was just terrible at masking the joy of making money.

[Strat]

I don't think there was any musical reason for Dave's exit from the band, I think one of the band (Mike?) says as much in the PJ20 book; it was strictly a personality issue and, even then, only for Ed and Jeff.

As much as I think the band made a great deal of their best music with Jack behind the kit, I don't think any of their drummers have been as natural a fit for the band as Dave was. I wouldn't change a thing about any of his parts, they're all perfect for the songs.

Nah. Ament had state dnumerous times he and dave did not speak the same language. Dont quote me verbatim but a big comment from jeff was something "I would tell dave to play like the buzzcocks and he would have no clue"

[Birds in Hell]

[edit: look, maybe I'll come back to this.]

[Jessica Fletcher]

I think the main issue with Dave A was, that he loved and relsihed the whole celebrity/rockstar lifestyle. Whereas Ed, and to some extent the rest of the band, weren't comfortable at all with it. I think a big part of the whole 'grunge' scene was that it wasn't cool to be famous and enjoy it at the same time.

The whole scene was about how to make as much money as possible while pretending to not like making money. Dave was just terrible at masking the joy of making money.

This is why a wealthy Dave A. meme does not exist. It wouldn't be any fun.

[96583UP]

Maybe now that PJ are comfortable being rock stars they can ask Dave A. to come back.

He'd give them some street credit given that PJ's lead singer now peddles gift cards, plays corporate gigs, and lives half the year in Hawaii.

Or would Dave A. still not fit because he is a "technical" (i.e. skilled, professional) drummer; whereas PJ play by "feeling" (i.e. are fuckmasters who copy other bands).

FUCK YOU COCKMOTHERFUCKS

I don't even know what I am mad at

Actually, yes I do. Dave A was a damn good drummer

and I am mad at Ed for Manopausing on him.

just cause Ed was all salty about having an abortion with Beth just because it was cool then to have an abortion

Jack Irons was great though

and that first year with Matt Cameron was great too

but Matt needs to go back to Soundgarden and PJ need to hire a head coach like Jay Gruden to call them out for their inadequacies.

Like, fuck PJ Anniversaries. And, like, stop coddling this band. And, like, fuck all these re-issues and merchandise.

Hey look at me, it's been 20 years since I shit in the upper tank of someone's bathroom at a house party!!

Let's all meet at Wrigley Field and sell some t-shirts for 4 days about it!!

Cockmonkeys

[Sgt. Crackpot]

[Birds in Hell]

Good post.

[Iholdthepain]

Maybe now that PJ are comfortable being rock stars they can ask Dave A. to come back.

He'd give them some street credit given that PJ's lead singer now peddles gift cards, plays corporate gigs, and lives half the year in Hawaii.

Or would Dave A. still not fit because he is a "technical" (i.e. skilled, professional) drummer; whereas PJ play by "feeling" (i.e. are fuckmasters who copy other bands).

FUCK YOU COCKMOTHERFUCKS

I don't even know what I am mad at

Actually, yes I do. Dave A was a damn good drummer

and I am mad at Ed for Manopausing on him.

just cause Ed was all salty about having an abortion with Beth just because it was cool then to have an abortion

Jack Irons was great though

and that first year with Matt Cameron was great too

but Matt needs to go back to Soundgarden and PJ need to hire a head coach like Jay Gruden to call them out for their inadequacies.

Like, fuck PJ Anniversaries. And, like, stop coddling this band. And, like, fuck all these re-issues and merchandise.

Hey look at me, it's been 20 years since I shit in the upper tank of someone's bathroom at a house party!!

Let's all meet at Wrigley Field and sell some t-shirts for 4 days about it!!

Cockmonkeys

To me, it's more of a personal 20 year anniversary... I guess I've had this 20 year awareness since PJ20, and to be quite candid, PJ played a role in some major personal crossroads that I experienced around 20 years ago.

...but I agree with much of what you wrote, other than the upper-decker thing and all the screaming.

[Jorge]

I agree with the screaming

[Lament]

Cockmonkeys

[LetMeSleep]

Good stuff internaut 96583UP.

[Mine]

I don't think there was any musical reason for Dave's exit from the band, I think one of the band (Mike?) says as much in the PJ20 book; it was strictly a personality issue and, even then, only for Ed and Jeff.

As much as I think the band made a great deal of their best music with Jack behind the kit, I don't think any of their drummers have been as natural a fit for the band as Dave was. I wouldn't change a thing about any of his parts, they're all perfect for the songs.

Nah. Ament had state dnumerous times he and dave did not speak the same language. Dont quote me verbatim but a big comment from jeff was something "I would tell dave to play like the buzzcocks and he would have no clue"

Somebody posted that quote in the previous page.
I don't think anybody has even a slightest idea why he was fired honestly. My impression is that they didn't see him as a good fit for the band and/or simply didn't like having him around. I don't think there was anything mayor nor a single person in the band is to blame. I mean if there was a buck to be made out of some Pearl Jam dirt somebody would have made the effort to make it at this point. Dave's importance in PJ's music is absurdly exaggerated though, considering he barely made any song writing contributions to the band regardless of how good a drummer he is.

[Mine]

As to his not having a career after PJ, the interviews suggest he was completely burnt by the treatment he received.

Not to be cynical but this sounds exactly what someone who couldn't get a gig would say. It just seems odd that he wouldn't have a very successful career all considered.

[McParadigm]

I don't think anybody has even a slightest idea why he was fired honestly. My impression is that they didn't see him as a good fit for the band and/or simply didn't like having him around.

It's always struck me as weird that a group of musicians who weren't high school besties with a rich personal history, who were barely getting along with each other at the time anyway, and whose collective bond would never really be all that great in the years to come would feel the need to point one guy out and be like, "That's the fucker...that's the one that needs to go."

I remember reading something a long time ago about him suggesting Daughter as a single during the Vs sessions, and the room getting awkwardly quiet. Like he'd done something so fundamentally wrong and poorly judged that nobody could even talk about it, or find a way to save the conversation. And then the band released Daughter as a single. What a bunch of weirdos.

[Brett]

Dave's importance in PJ's music is absurdly exaggerated though, considering he barely made any song writing contributions to the band regardless of how good a drummer he is.

Why are his songwriting contributions of any relevance to the role he played for the band. Many bands have drummers suited to their music who make no writing contributions whatsoever. Besides, aren't you the guy who has frequently referenced Vedder as being the only member of the band with any songwriting skill, while the others can only come up with riffs and "ideas" at best? In that case, wouldn't pretty much every member of the band be overrated in terms of their "importance"?

I think Dave A. was a competent enough drummer whose style fit well with Pearl Jam's early music. The road they began to head down during parts of Vitalogy and beyond wasn't fit for him, no, but I believe it's been referenced before that if he had stayed on with the band, they probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyways. Jack was said to be a calming and centering force for them during a tumultuous time. There are strengths and weaknesses for everyone who has sat behind the kit for this band, and unfortunately not one of them is ably suited to effectively tackle all parts of the band's catalog.

[LetMeSleep]

Well he had had a career. He's been playing with Steve Salas which is guitar expo stuff. Real muso wank stuff. I think he chose to just to hang with his mates and chill back mid 90s. He worked with Axl which must have been another crazy experience.

Strange part is he seems to be happy hanging around his home with his childhood girlfriend, occasionally working. He sounds pretty grounded and content.

[LetMeSleep]

I don't think anybody has even a slightest idea why he was fired honestly. My impression is that they didn't see him as a good fit for the band and/or simply didn't like having him around.

It's always struck me as weird that a group of musicians who weren't high school besties with a rich personal history, who were barely getting along with each other at the time anyway, and whose collective bond would never really be all that great in the years to come would feel the need to point one guy out and be like, "That's the fucker...that's the one that needs to go."

I remember reading something a long time ago about him suggesting Daughter as a single during the Vs sessions, and the room getting awkwardly quiet. Like he'd done something so fundamentally wrong and poorly judged that nobody could even talk about it, or find a way to save the conversation. And then the band released Daughter as a single. What a bunch of weirdos.

Not sure if it was a magazine interview or in the Five Against One book but when they had a number one he felt like celebrating but everyone else was moping around. A lot of dis functional behaviour there. I get the feeling that they still haven't spoken about those things. I can't see a Some Kind Of Monster happening around PJ.

[Leatherhead]

There are strengths and weaknesses for everyone who has sat behind the kit for this band, and unfortunately not one of them is ably suited to effectively tackle all parts of the band's catalog.

this seems weird, doesn't it?

[LetMeSleep]

There are strengths and weaknesses for everyone who has sat behind the kit for this band, and unfortunately not one of them is ably suited to effectively tackle all parts of the band's catalog.

this seems weird, doesn't it?

Not really. PJ have been lucky to have 3 of the better drummers of the last 20 years. All of which have differing strengths and weaknesses.

[EJ]

Dave's importance in PJ's music is absurdly exaggerated though, considering he barely made any song writing contributions to the band regardless of how good a drummer he is.

This seems like a silly point to make. He only recorded with the band for two records. And, actually you could probably say 1.5 or less, considering he was scuttled on Satan's Bed for the Jimmy Shoaf robot, as well as all the "filler" tracks he wasn't needed for.

But, what he did record with them, is arguably some of the best music this band has ever made. What does it matter if he's listed in the songwriting credits?