Vitalogy is 20...

[Mine]

I don't think anybody has even a slightest idea why he was fired honestly. My impression is that they didn't see him as a good fit for the band and/or simply didn't like having him around.

It's always struck me as weird that a group of musicians who weren't high school besties with a rich personal history, who were barely getting along with each other at the time anyway, and whose collective bond would never really be all that great in the years to come would feel the need to point one guy out and be like, "That's the fucker...that's the one that needs to go."

I remember reading something a long time ago about him suggesting Daughter as a single during the Vs sessions, and the room getting awkwardly quiet. Like he'd done something so fundamentally wrong and poorly judged that nobody could even talk about it, or find a way to save the conversation. And then the band released Daughter as a single. What a bunch of weirdos.

Well he was the 2nd drummer at that point, he was the newest guy, so there's that. I'm sure he was at least in part a scapegoat. As for the rest it also suggest that the rest of them may have been getting along better than it's usually assumed or that some aspects of their not getting along was exaggerated if not misinterpreted. I think the part of the interview they did with Mark Richards when they suddenly touch the No Code/Vitalogy subject is probably the best representation we have of their personal and artistic dynamic.

[Mine]

Dave's importance in PJ's music is absurdly exaggerated though, considering he barely made any song writing contributions to the band regardless of how good a drummer he is.

Why are his songwriting contributions of any relevance to the role he played for the band. Many bands have drummers suited to their music who make no writing contributions whatsoever. Besides, aren't you the guy who has frequently referenced Vedder as being the only member of the band with any songwriting skill, while the others can only come up with riffs and "ideas" at best? In that case, wouldn't pretty much every member of the band be overrated in terms of their "importance"?

I think Dave A. was a competent enough drummer whose style fit well with Pearl Jam's early music. The road they began to head down during parts of Vitalogy and beyond wasn't fit for him, no, but I believe it's been referenced before that if he had stayed on with the band, they probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyways. Jack was said to be a calming and centering force for them during a tumultuous time. There are strengths and weaknesses for everyone who has sat behind the kit for this band, and unfortunately not one of them is ably suited to effectively tackle all parts of the band's catalog.

No i was making a different point. I don't buy the argument that his drumming is so essential to the quality of the songs he played on regardless of how good it was. If he was a dominant song writing force that would change, but he wasn't.

[LetMeSleep]

Who wrote a song doesn't matter to the performance. Unless there is a certain style that is at the heart of the song.

Those early tracks had a tension and energy that neither Jack nor Matt have captured as well as Dave. They both played the material adequately and often they are beat perfect to what Dave was playing. It's the same with matt playing Jacks polyrhythms. In My Tree, WYA, GTF will never be played as well by Matt because Matt doesn't play that way. And he doesn't bounce the way Dave does (see Rats).

But that's not to say that Josh Freese couldn't come in and nail every single song as well as all 3 drummers. Even the greatest drummer who could play all parts exactly as they were rec'd, they would approach each song from a different headspace and the energy or attitude may be lacking.

[Mine]

I don't disagree with any of that.

[96583UP]

Dave A made Daughter sing

just watch that version on SNL .... sweeeeet

those tight little cymbal hits ... his snare with that snap

that youthful snap ... that made Vs jump

great drummer for the live show

totally content keeping 11 minute versions of songs going



maybe him and Ed's problem was that one late night after a ton of partying they had beefy man sex and Ed fired him to hide his love away

[Birds in Hell]

It's always struck me as weird that a group of musicians who weren't high school besties with a rich personal history, who were barely getting along with each other at the time anyway, and whose collective bond would never really be all that great in the years to come would feel the need to point one guy out and be like, "That's the fucker...that's the one that needs to go."

Actually, that kind of makes perfect sense in some respects. Why bother communicating openly about their frustrations with each other and their conflicted feelings about the situation they found themselves in? That sounds like a lot of hard work, surely pointing at the new(ish) guy from a different background to the rest of the band and saying "I think everything will be OK forever if we can simply get rid of this jerk, I mean, he doesn't even like the Buzzcocks" is much easier.

maybe him and Ed's problem was that one late night after a ton of partying they had beefy man sex and Ed fired him to hide his love away

I used to think there had to be some other, deeper reason why Dave was fired and why they remain so uncomfortable associating him with the band to this day, eg. he was a party to some kind of personal drama, had been involved in something shady, but nope, I'm pretty sure they just dealt with the situation poorly and don't enjoy being reminded of it. If another reason existed, I'm sure it would've come to light by now.

[McParadigm]

Maybe he stole Ed's boots.

[tommymtcom]

I think the issue was that he smiled too much.

[bodysnatcher]

Maybe no one in the band really knew how to pronounce his last name

[LoathedVermin72]

Maybe no one in the band really knew how to pronounce his last name

This seems like the most likely theory so far

[Jessica Fletcher]

Jeff would've been canned long ago. Ed still can't pronounce Ament.

[96583UP]

I used to think there had to be some other, deeper reason why Dave was fired and why they remain so uncomfortable associating him with the band to this day, eg. he was a party to some kind of personal drama, had been involved in something shady, but nope, I'm pretty sure they just dealt with the situation poorly and don't enjoy being reminded of it. If another reason existed, I'm sure it would've come to light by now.

True, it probably was just some Lord Of The Flies-type shit, and not a case where Ed and him bro'ed down so hard that at like 4:46am one night they started making out and then it led to insertion, and then termination.

but it's true, if Dave A was all smiley, and Ed was in the mental pisser, then happy people become targets

especially when you're dating an unborn-baby-killing cunt and you're not allowed to be your own person

so Ed may have sought out a non-baby killer to shit on to make himself feel better about being a dipshit cockdick. and Dave A was the closest non-baby-killer nearby that day, because all the other band members were at a buzzcocks show

and the rest is history....

well not really, because they skipped over it in PJ20 pretty quickly

but at leasGIFT CARDS

[Alex]

GIFT CARDS

[Alex]

GIFT CARDS

[Alex]

GIFT CARDS

[Alex]

GIFT CARDS

[McParadigm]

They really did handle topics like abortion, anal intercourse, and the shedding of civilized behavior modes by desert island inhabitants with the kid gloves in that doco, didn't they?

Stupids.

[Mine]

Seriously. You'd think people so deeply involved in exploiting everything about themselves for profit would realise that was the money grabbing approach to chose for a documentary.

[McParadigm]

Or maybe they're more clever about it than that.

I could imagine two piles of sticky notes with topics on them being picked apart.

"The Roskilde thing?" "Put it in the pile for PJ20."
"The mantercourse?" "Save it for 40."
"The drummer thing?" "Cut it in half."

[Mine]

the drug addiction and the drama surrounding it thing - it always works in rockumentaries