what makes for a good woman?

[E.H. Ruddock]

but lots of guys (maybe most guys?), want women who are sexually interesting

I don't like to do a lot of work so maybe I don't fit into this category.

[malice]

but lots of guys (maybe most guys?), want women who are sexually interesting

I don't like to do a lot of work so maybe I don't fit into this category.

i guess it depends on what you consider a lot of work, remod. your wife would have to be the final judge on that anyway.

[E.H. Ruddock]

but lots of guys (maybe most guys?), want women who are sexually interesting

I don't like to do a lot of work so maybe I don't fit into this category.

i guess it depends on what you consider a lot of work, remod. your wife would have to be the final judge on that anyway.

I just mean I know what she likes and that is what I do. Maybe I should be more spontaneous, I don't know. But man, I'm old.

[malice]

but lots of guys (maybe most guys?), want women who are sexually interesting

I don't like to do a lot of work so maybe I don't fit into this category.

i guess it depends on what you consider a lot of work, remod. your wife would have to be the final judge on that anyway.

I just mean I know what she likes and that is what I do. Maybe I should be more spontaneous, I don't know. But man, I'm old.

I feel like everything I do these days should end in: but man, i'm old

[Norah]

Just spewing shit here but a lot of my friends have ended up with girls who, under the surface, are these weird anti-feminists. I mean, for the most part they're well educated, working professionals but they have no problem with "men being men" and spend their sundays cleaning while the guys sit around and watch football. It's tough to describe because they're not these complete airheads, and they're not 100% 1950s in their ways, and for the most part are good friends of mine and decent human beings, but it's there and I couldn't stand being with someone like that.

[Norah]

I might not be giving the best examples with how they act, but it's something that's bothered me about these girls for a long time. The friends of mine that they're dating/married to can be misogynistic douchebags so I guess it all works out.

[Norah]

I guess the underlying thing for me is this: at the end of the day these guys don't respect their partners as equals. They think they do, but deep down they don't. And the women they're with don't see themselves as a complete equal partner in the relationship. Once again, they think they do, but they don't. That would bother me.

[Norah]

So I guess I look for a healthy amount of self respect.

[malice]

So I guess I look for a healthy amount of self respect.

this is a good point, pete

i'm thinking the woman's movement hasn't been as successful as we try to pass it off as being over the last 40 years or so. and for those reasons you mention above. a successful outcome would be better represented by an equal standing for both men and women. and self respect on both sides of a relationship, which i think would display itself as lacking lop-sided roles or reactions to roles within the relationship.

maybe that's what confuses me about all of this, the idea that men want to be in a satisfying relationship that has both parts admiration and respect for one another, without either person feeling disrespected or overly burdened - men seem to want women who are self respecting, but i'm not entirely sure either men or women quite know what that means in relation to the other person...

[surfndestroy]

You can be very pro equality and still have a preference for a more traditional relationship. It has nothing to do with respect for your partner. Unless you think the women are incapable of making their life decisions, these are relationship preferences that they also have and know they are valued and respected.
Equality and respect doesn't mean if you like anal that you should expect and want your partner to want to drill your ass as well.

[Norah]

Yeah I get that, but what I'm describing is more than just that. There's definitely a level of patronizing going on in the way they talk and interact.

[Norah]

I would never say it to any of them. These are friends and they all seem happy together, so whatevs.

[surfndestroy]

Yeah I get that, but what I'm describing is more than just that. There's definitely a level of patronizing going on in the way they talk and interact.

I just try to focus on "are they happy". If so, I don't really care what their relationship is like, even if it grates me sometimes.

[Norah]

Yeah I get that, but what I'm describing is more than just that. There's definitely a level of patronizing going on in the way they talk and interact.

I just try to focus on "are they happy". If so, I don't really care what their relationship is like, even if it grates me sometimes.

For sure. I only brought it up in this thread because I look at it and go "that's not what I'd be looking for".

[surfndestroy]

I think we're ina big translational period. Trying to learn and respect peoples choices they make in their personal lives and that it's okay if those don't hold up to their professed societal views for equality. I find it weird that we judge people for their relationship preferences and not their sexual preferances. I try, and fail to repsect peoples personal choices and can respect that their personal choices are not ones they advocate for society except that they always value freedom of personal choice as a societal value.

[Norah]

It's really not the preferences of roles in the relationship that bothers me here, it's the underlying attitudes that lead to it. I have another couple in mind that falls into similar roles without that underlying level of patronizing from the man to the woman and it's just fine.

If a girl thinks of herself as "just a girl" in so many things, that's going to be a turn off for me. And I mean that in much more than just a sexual sense.

[Peeps]

though she was capable of paying her way and opening a door i still did this for the last gal i was dating

my biggest problem with her is she was too "nice" and when she thought i wasnt interested decided it was a good idea to go back to her ex, make out with him, have it posted on facebook saying what a great night she had.

2 days after we went to a wedding together. oh and the ex was someone she considered taking a PFA out against on two different times. i realize i should have been a man and overlooked such character traits but alas, i was week and cut all ties with her

[malice]

I think we're ina big translational period. Trying to learn and respect peoples choices they make in their personal lives and that it's okay if those don't hold up to their professed societal views for equality. I find it weird that we judge people for their relationship preferences and not their sexual preferances. I try, and fail to repsect peoples personal choices and can respect that their personal choices are not ones they advocate for society except that they always value freedom of personal choice as a societal value.

in what way do you mean judged by relationship preferences rather than sexual preferences? please elaborate

[surfndestroy]

I think we're ina big translational period. Trying to learn and respect peoples choices they make in their personal lives and that it's okay if those don't hold up to their professed societal views for equality. I find it weird that we judge people for their relationship preferences and not their sexual preferances. I try, and fail to repsect peoples personal choices and can respect that their personal choices are not ones they advocate for society except that they always value freedom of personal choice as a societal value.

in what way do you mean judged by relationship preferences rather than sexual preferences? please elaborate

If a woman confessed to you that she was submissive sexually, I think you would respect that and not act as if that reflects on her as a person or how she views women. Nor for the man. But I see woman looking down on a lot of women in traditional relationships. Stay at home moms are stigmatized, whereas as they should be just as respected as CEO woman if the stay at home choice was their own to make.
Men are douchebags but I think on average way less judgemental of women than women are.

[malice]

i have to say, snd, you seem to have a real thing about women being submissive in bed...

not that i'm trying to judge you. but this is something you've commented on before in (i think) the feminism thread, yet by and large, sexuality isn't an overriding factor is hardly ANYONE'S life unless they are sex workers maybe.
I don't give a fuck, personally, what people want to do for sex. it's a basic thing - people are how we are. and mostly I can't muster up enough interest in other people's sexuality to care one way or another - which reminds me of a real world situation i experienced this summer - my niece is lesbian, and has become much more militant in her desire to express her lesbianism... which some of this is her age (she's 25) and some of it is her experimenting with how she wants to be as an adult. she started dressing much more 'non-gender specific' and started binding her breasts, which ultimately is physically damaging, but whatever, she's going to do as she wants, so...

I talked with her at length one day about all of it and she was fairly excited over the treatment of women, the idea of being queer, the desire to not be commented to negatively about her appearance, whatever.
I ended up telling her, look, I don't think many people really give a shit what you do or who you fuck. most people are too concerned about themselves to wander metaphorically outside of their own comfort zones when it comes to sexuality, but ultimately, because this has been a mostly heterosexual society, you just aren't going to find a large group of people willing to comment on your sexual practices or their own either because, who cares.



i don't know how many men OR women would want to be judged by their sexual desires...