Denver Broncos

[Coach]

I don't imagine many people move to Kansas City for the weather and it's not like the Chargers have a long history of success.

The nature of NFL ticket pricing trends towards to rich bandwagon assholes.

IE. The Super Bowl crowd.

I don't agree with that at all.
--KC's all time record is 431-414-12 while SD's is 427-424-11. Almost identical both there and in championships (KC has 1 SB but it's all the way back in 1970. SD has 0 but does have an AFL championship). And in the past 10-15 years, there's little doubt that SD has usually been better and more exciting to watch than KC.
--The SD metro area is 3.2M while KC is 2M. But again, the Chargers are the closest to the vacant markets of both the LA and Riverside metro areas. Add those up and there's a total of 20M in SoCal--ten times what's in KC.
--KC is pretty underrated as far as "richness" goes, but I'm still going to assume that it doesn't hold a candle to SoCal. Maybe Joey or someone else can correct me.

The bottom line is that the Chargers have no one to blame but themselves when fans of teams like the Broncos, Patriots, Steelers, and even the Raiders take over their stadium. It sucks, because pretty much all the Chargers fans I've come across are cool as shit. But there should be way more of them.

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you more in my life.

We've talked a lot of football and other stuff over the years, and I feel like we've had some good debates over that span. What caused you to strongly disagree?

Because no one is FROM san diego. You see similar things happen in Phoenix and Florida (lesser extant) in other sports. And the proximity to LA is pretty much meaningless. Even if those people are rooting for San Diego, they aren't invested enough to drive 2+ hours. If the Lions weren't here, I might root for the Bengals, (not the browns. no. not ever) but I am not driving to go see them with any regularity.

Also, the sunny weather makes San Diego a big destination city for tourism, so when your favorite cold weather team is playing out there, you are likely to schedule a trip.

Additionally, to support the other claims, it's my understanding that a new stadium may not be built in San Diego and the team could move...perhaps to LA. So, perhaps there is some fledgling support among San Diegians.

Finally, after visiting the city a few times in my life, I always found Chargers fans to be supportive and vocal. Still, that's just a judgement call after a few visits there.

Regardless, San Diego remains pretty much one of the greatest cities on Earth.

[Green Habit]

Because no one is FROM san diego. You see similar things happen in Phoenix and Florida (lesser extant) in other sports. And the proximity to LA is pretty much meaningless. Even if those people are rooting for San Diego, they aren't invested enough to drive 2+ hours. If the Lions weren't here, I might root for the Bengals, (not the browns. no. not ever) but I am not driving to go see them with any regularity.

But again, with the sheer size of 20 million people that have the Chargers as their closest team it's not like they need a small subset of LA and Riverside people to travel down for every game. Using KC as an example again, the Chiefs can fill Arrowhead (almost 80,000 capacity) if almost 4% of the KC metro's population goes to all 8 games. Now, let's say that the Chargers can only get people to one game instead of eight. Though that would require about 570,000 people, that's still only 2.75% of 20M.

I'm not ignoring the unique challenges that SD faces. Snowbirds, military transplants, football diaspora, and all that. But when both the Rams and Raiders left the Chargers had about as golden of an opportunity as it gets to overcome those challenges. If either or both of those teams come back they'll have squandered that opportunity.

[@SkitchP]

Because no one is FROM san diego. You see similar things happen in Phoenix and Florida (lesser extant) in other sports. And the proximity to LA is pretty much meaningless. Even if those people are rooting for San Diego, they aren't invested enough to drive 2+ hours. If the Lions weren't here, I might root for the Bengals, (not the browns. no. not ever) but I am not driving to go see them with any regularity.

But again, with the sheer size of 20 million people that have the Chargers as their closest team it's not like they need a small subset of LA and Riverside people to travel down for every game. Using KC as an example again, the Chiefs can fill Arrowhead (almost 80,000 capacity) if almost 4% of the KC metro's population goes to all 8 games. Now, let's say that the Chargers can only get people to one game instead of eight. Though that would require about 570,000 people, that's still only 2.75% of 20M.

I'm not ignoring the unique challenges that SD faces. Snowbirds, military transplants, football diaspora, and all that. But when both the Rams and Raiders left the Chargers had about as golden of an opportunity as it gets to overcome those challenges. If either or both of those teams come back they'll have squandered that opportunity.

Counting on the disinterested fan bases of two franchises that moved due to lack of interest to be your fan base 2 hours away?

[mray10]

You actually see this in a lot of NFL stadiums these days. Ticket prices have reached a level where many are corporate owned or just flat out owned by resellers. I'm a Denver transplant living in Phoenix. When the Broncos come through a couple times a decade, it's no big deal to drop some money on tickets because it's rare. I don't believe I could afford season tickets for the Broncos (haha, as if those are available) if I still lived in Denver.

This is a problem in New York, Dallas, and plenty of other stadiums. It was a problem in Phoenix, but is less so when the team is really competitive.

I don't really blame SD fans. That stadium sucks in every way, their team is fairly lousy on account of the injuries on the line, and there are always better things you could be doing with your time.

[4/5]

Yeah, I think all my points have pretty much been covered. A place like San Diego or Miami (San Diego >>>>> Miami) is a great destination weekend to come watch your team play, so there's that. There's also the transplant aspect of it, which is the biggest factor IMO. Most people living in South Florida are from somewhere else. And most people with money down here are definitely from somewhere else. Anyway, when the Ravens show up once every couple of years, or the Jets once a year, their fans turn out. It is an event for them. They get one chance a year (or one chance in several years) to see their favorite team in person, and they take it. I was at that Miami/Baltimore game two weeks ago and solidly 1/3 of the people were there were Ravens fans. God, that sucks. I mean it's really awful. I'm used to it, though. But blaming the fans of the team itself, regardless of how large the metro area is, is missing the mark.

If you're one of the many Boston transplants living in South Florida, and heaven help me, there are lots, you're probably trying to go to that game every time the Pats are here. (They weren't trying as hard pre-mid nineties, btw). With the second hand market, it's pretty easy to go to those games if you really want to, and in certain markets it is probably simply more likely that the people really motivated happen to be fans of the away team. No offense to Kansas City or Cleveland...well, offense intended to Cleveland, but are those cities full of people who grew up in other regions, fans of other teams, etc? Are they places that people want to travel to for a game? Despite that, every week you see fans from the road team generally in the front few rows on the lower bowl, even in places like Green Bay and Buffalo, because if you're truly motivated and have the means, you're going to get into that stadium, regardless of how great the local fanbase is.

Besides, can't Chargers (or Dolphins, etc) fans make a rational decision that "I love my team, but the expected joy I will derive from attending this game above watching it from my house/favorite bar isn't worth X amount of dollars"? That doesn't make them bad fans, it makes them rational consumers.

[surfndestroy]

Yeah, I think all my points have pretty much been covered. A place like San Diego or Miami (San Diego >>>>> Miami) is a great destination weekend to come watch your team play, so there's that. There's also the transplant aspect of it, which is the biggest factor IMO. Most people living in South Florida are from somewhere else. And most people with money down here are definitely from somewhere else. Anyway, when the Ravens show up once every couple of years, or the Jets once a year, their fans turn out. It is an event for them. They get one chance a year (or one chance in several years) to see their favorite team in person, and they take it. I was at that Miami/Baltimore game two weeks ago and solidly 1/3 of the people were there were Ravens fans. God, that sucks. I mean it's really awful. I'm used to it, though. But blaming the fans of the team itself, regardless of how large the metro area is, is missing the mark.

If you're one of the many Boston transplants living in South Florida, and heaven help me, there are lots, you're probably trying to go to that game every time the Pats are here. (They weren't trying as hard pre-mid nineties, btw). With the second hand market, it's pretty easy to go to those games if you really want to, and in certain markets it is probably simply more likely that the people really motivated happen to be fans of the away team. No offense to Kansas City or Cleveland...well, offense intended to Cleveland, but are those cities full of people who grew up in other regions, fans of other teams, etc? Are they places that people want to travel to for a game? Despite that, every week you see fans from the road team generally in the front few rows on the lower bowl, even in places like Green Bay and Buffalo, because if you're truly motivated and have the means, you're going to get into that stadium, regardless of how great the local fanbase is.

Besides, can't Chargers (or Dolphins, etc) fans make a rational decision that "I love my team, but the expected joy I will derive from attending this game above watching it from my house/favorite bar isn't worth X amount of dollars"? That doesn't make them bad fans, it makes them rational consumers.

A lot of sense being made here. I have season tickets for hockey but the home team is my adopted, I moved here team and not my boyhood, damn I love that team. Tickets are stupid expensive in Canada for hockey and I'm at the point that I won't renew next year but will catch the Bruins as they do their annual west coast swing and a trip to see them at home in the spring.

I think a lot of teams have priced themselves out, not only with ticket prices but beer and food prices, of having their own fans attend games as season ticket holders.

[Alex]

Besides, can't Chargers (or Dolphins, etc) fans make a rational decision that "I love my team, but the expected joy I will derive from attending this game above watching it from my house/favorite bar isn't worth X amount of dollars"? That doesn't make them bad fans, it makes them rational consumers.

THODOKS LIVES

[Green Habit]

I don't really blame SD fans. That stadium sucks in every way, their team is fairly lousy on account of the injuries on the line, and there are always better things you could be doing with your time.

Besides, can't Chargers (or Dolphins, etc) fans make a rational decision that "I love my team, but the expected joy I will derive from attending this game above watching it from my house/favorite bar isn't worth X amount of dollars"? That doesn't make them bad fans, it makes them rational consumers.

Just to make one thing clear: I'm not blaming Chargers fans at all. I've been to the Murph before, and it sucks. I won't comment on the team's play since I'm biased. I'm blaming the Chargers organization for not make a better outreach effort to create more Chargers fans. Ticket reselling happens at every stadium, I get it, but you can mitigate it by having a bigger fanbase.

[spike]

another terrible game for peyton so far. is he done?

[Green Habit]

Well that sucked, but at least it only cost them an outside chance at the #1 seed. And at least it guarantees that they'll have to take down the Raiders no matter what. Hopefully they get a loss like this out of the way now instead of in the playoffs.

Brandon Marshall needs to get healthy for the playoffs because the lack of any real linebacker other than Von Miller just killed them.

[verb_to_trust]

another terrible game for peyton so far. is he done?

Looks real old out there tonight

[Green Habit]

another terrible game for peyton so far. is he done?

Looks real old out there tonight

He was also trying to play catchup in the pouring rain. Not easy for any QB to do. Though, he did make a terrible decision in not dumping it off to CJ Anderson on that third and short.

[verb_to_trust]

Old guys hate the cold

[spike]

another terrible game for peyton so far. is he done?

Looks real old out there tonight

He was also trying to play catchup in the pouring rain. Not easy for any QB to do. Though, he did make a terrible decision in not dumping it off to CJ Anderson on that third and short.

he's not supposed to be just any QB

[Alex]

go broncos

[doug rr]

[Coach]

Peyton fans won't like this:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/co ... ati/32597/

Following a four-pick night in Cincinnati, Peyton Manning has more interceptions this season than Brother Eli. He also clinches his eighth season of at least 15 interceptions.

For the sake of argument and comparison, Tom Brady has zero.

Also consider Peyton Manning has 28 pick-6's since his rookie season in 1998. Brett Favre is next with 27 followed by Drew Brees (23) and Carson Palmer (22).

Tom Brady has 10 pick-6's in his career, by the way. Consider it another log on the fire that Brady is better than Manning.

But Broncos fans will like this (Denver still leads league in quality wins)

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2014/17/QS/

[spike]

that's poorly written; makes it sound like brady has zero interceptions this year.

[Alex]

tom brady has never thrown an interception

[Chris_H_2]

Go Blue!