The God topic

[dimejinky99]

The Anabaptists had the right idea. You dont involve children in religion, you wait until youre an adult and choose to become involved with full awareness and ability to understand, or not.

Too bad Henry VIII had em all burned.

[Norah]

The Anabaptists are fucking crazy.

[Simple Torture]

TBH, though, I think what Steve Harvey said about monkeys was more disappointing and frightening than what he said about atheists.

[LoathedVermin72]

at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking. and this goes for both sides (the "Western" countries and the Islamic communities that reside in these countries). Theres also cultural differences to take into account into.

So fucking what? Mocking anything should never even be illegal, let alone punishable by violence.

And how can you seriously say that Islam is a "perfect religion" when it so clearly instills so much hatred for so many things? That just makes my stomach turn.

[BurtReynolds]

If we evolved from monkeys, why we still got monkeys?

[LoathedVermin72]

If we evolved from monkeys, why we still got monkeys?

[fakeplasticdreams]

Speaking of immune to criticism, Irelands leading Muslim academic has instead of distancing himself and those he speaks for, refused to condemn those who did this today and instead vaguely threatened and said he'll legally pursue any paper here that publishes any of the cartoons. We have fucked up blasphemy laws, which really only apply to 'our' God/religion but seriously..he aint doing himself or Muslims here any favours at all.
http://www.thejournal.ie/dr-ali-selim-c ... itter_self

I dont know, id rather if someone goes into legal ( read: more professional and civilized) pursuit rather than nutcases with AK 47s.

[LoathedVermin72]

Speaking of immune to criticism, Irelands leading Muslim academic has instead of distancing himself and those he speaks for, refused to condemn those who did this today and instead vaguely threatened and said he'll legally pursue any paper here that publishes any of the cartoons. We have fucked up blasphemy laws, which really only apply to 'our' God/religion but seriously..he aint doing himself or Muslims here any favours at all.
http://www.thejournal.ie/dr-ali-selim-c ... itter_self

I dont know, id rather if someone goes into legal ( read: more professional and civilized) pursuit rather than nutcases with AK 47s.

How about no pursuit at all? Because "pursuing" someone for satire is goddamn insane.

[Birds in Hell]

The 12 people didnt have to die for this. at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking.

Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others.

In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed.

[fakeplasticdreams]

at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking. and this goes for both sides (the "Western" countries and the Islamic communities that reside in these countries). Theres also cultural differences to take into account into.

So fucking what? Mocking anything should never even be illegal, let alone punishable by violence.

And how can you seriously say that Islam is a "perfect religion" when it so clearly instills so much hatred for so many things? That just makes my stomach turn.

"Mocking anything should never even be illegal" - YOUR opinion of course.

"let alone punishable by violence." - I agree with this.

"when it so clearly instills so much hatred for so many things?" - Have you lived in Muslim majority country before?

[LoathedVermin72]

"Mocking anything should never even be illegal" - YOUR opinion of course.

Are you actually disagreeing with this? If so, you're proving my point.

"when it so clearly instills so much hatred for so many things?" - Have you lived in Muslim majority country before?

What does that have to do with anything?

[fakeplasticdreams]

The 12 people didnt have to die for this. at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking.

Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others.

In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed.

"Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others" - exactly. everyone's line is different. So Some of us Muslims are not allowed to think its wrong to mock?

"In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed" - Yes of course, you can mock all you want and I agree there should be no blood shed. But that does not mean we should accept the mocking no?

[LoathedVermin72]

The 12 people didnt have to die for this. at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking.

Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others.

In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed.

"Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others" - exactly. everyone's line is different. So Some of us Muslims are not allowed to think its wrong to mock?

"In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed" - Yes of course, you can mock all you want and I agree there should be no blood shed. But that does not mean we should accept the mocking no?

If you don't like the mocking, you refute it. You offer a counterargument. Or if you don't want to, then you ignore it. But you don't try to punish people for mocking, or stop them from mocking in the first place.

It's ridiculous that this even needs to be said. This is exactly the kind of shit that terrifies me about Islam.

[malice]

If we evolved from monkeys, why we still got monkeys?

is this the foot loose thread?

[Birds in Hell]

Yes of course, you can mock all you want and I agree there should be no blood shed. But that does not mean we should accept the mocking no?

The question that interests me is how you propose this non-acceptance should be enforced.

[fakeplasticdreams]

"Mocking anything should never even be illegal" - YOUR opinion of course.

Are you actually disagreeing with this? If so, you're proving my point.

"when it so clearly instills so much hatred for so many things?" - Have you lived in Muslim majority country before?

What does that have to do with anything?

"Are you actually disagreeing with this? If so, you're proving my point."

Yes i am.

"What does that have to do with anything?"

Well you mentioned it instills hatred in a lot of things, by that definition we'd be killing Christians and Jews every single minute, not to mention lesbians, gays, etc ( amongst other things). So where are you getting the instill hatred part?

[fakeplasticdreams]

The 12 people didnt have to die for this. at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking.

Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others.

In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed.

"Who sets the parameters of what is intellectual criticism and what is boorish sloganeering, though? I'd wager some of us might draw that line in a different place to others" - exactly. everyone's line is different. So Some of us Muslims are not allowed to think its wrong to mock?

"In any event, it should hardly need saying that Islam should be able to be mocked - unfairly, rudely, openly and loudly - without a single drop of blood being shed" - Yes of course, you can mock all you want and I agree there should be no blood shed. But that does not mean we should accept the mocking no?

If you don't like the mocking, you refute it. You offer a counterargument. Or if you don't want to, then you ignore it. But you don't try to punish people for mocking, or stop them from mocking in the first place.

It's ridiculous that this even needs to be said. This is exactly the kind of shit that terrifies me about Islam.

Theres been many counterarguments. as with many who have ignored.

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

But my American & European colleagues, who i have worked with for the last 15 years, are not.


Ill just end it here ( just because im on company time here lol). ill just leave it at this: We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

[LoathedVermin72]

Well you mentioned it instills hatred in a lot of things, by that definition we'd be killing Christians and Jews every single minute, not to mention lesbians, gays, etc ( amongst other things). So where are you getting the instill hatred part?

When did I say "instilling hatred" is tantamount to "killing Christians and Jews every single minute"? Your logic doesn't make any sense.

The hatred inherent in the teachings of Islam is self-evident in the scripture. In its unabashed hate speech for women, for homosexuals, for non-believers. And I'm not just bashing Islam here, for context - Christianity is full of a lot of the same bullshit. And if you are actually going to try to say that there aren't tons of Islam-inspired people out there committing atrocious acts in the name of their faith, then...well, you are just plain incorrect. I could reference countless articles about violent horrors. Again, I can't believe this even needs to be said. It is by no means a "perfect religion" unless you condone a lot of awful shit.

And, one more time regarding the mocking: I, like any human being who values freedom, logic, and self-expression, am appalled at the mere suggestion that mocking ANYTHING should be off-limits in any way. The very suggestion goes against the fundamental concept of living in a free and open society.

[dimejinky99]

May 20th..a day designated as an FU to this kind of terrorism...draw mohammad day..

I can't see it doing anything but throwing fuel on the fire, but people shouldnt have to take a stand against this kind thing. It's your belief system. Don't try push its rules on me. And dont attempt to enact violence against me if i do.

oh, wait

[fakeplasticdreams]

Well you mentioned it instills hatred in a lot of things, by that definition we'd be killing Christians and Jews every single minute, not to mention lesbians, gays, etc ( amongst other things). So where are you getting the instill hatred part?

When did I say "instilling hatred" is tantamount to "killing Christians and Jews every single minute"? Your logic doesn't make any sense.

The hatred inherent in the teachings of Islam is self-evident in the scripture. In its unabashed hate speech for women, for homosexuals, for non-believers. And I'm not just bashing Islam here, for context - Christianity is full of a lot of the same bullshit. And if you are actually going to try to say that there aren't tons of Islam-inspired people out there committing atrocious acts in the name of their faith, then...well, you are just plain incorrect. I could reference countless articles about violent horrors. Again, I can't believe this even needs to be said. It is by no means a "perfect religion" unless you condone a lot of awful shit.

see my last post.

cheers.