The God topic

[LoathedVermin72]

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

Please tell me where I said the actions of extremists represent all Muslims. You are putting words in my mouth.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

YOUR comments are only cementing this impression.

We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

I simply don't understand how any religion that can inspire something like the attack today could ever be called "perfect." That just doesn't make any sense. I get that it's right for you, but "perfect"? Seriously?

[LoathedVermin72]

Well you mentioned it instills hatred in a lot of things, by that definition we'd be killing Christians and Jews every single minute, not to mention lesbians, gays, etc ( amongst other things). So where are you getting the instill hatred part?

When did I say "instilling hatred" is tantamount to "killing Christians and Jews every single minute"? Your logic doesn't make any sense.

The hatred inherent in the teachings of Islam is self-evident in the scripture. In its unabashed hate speech for women, for homosexuals, for non-believers. And I'm not just bashing Islam here, for context - Christianity is full of a lot of the same bullshit. And if you are actually going to try to say that there aren't tons of Islam-inspired people out there committing atrocious acts in the name of their faith, then...well, you are just plain incorrect. I could reference countless articles about violent horrors. Again, I can't believe this even needs to be said. It is by no means a "perfect religion" unless you condone a lot of awful shit.

see my last post.

cheers.

Your last post didn't clarify anything.

[malice]

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

Please tell me where I said the actions of extremists represent all Muslims. You are putting words in my mouth.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

YOUR comments are only cementing this impression.

We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

I simply don't understand how any religion that can inspire something like the attack today could ever be called "perfect." That just doesn't make any sense. I get that it's right for you, but "perfect"? Seriously?

lv, i can't figure out if you're being argumentative and stubborn or just missing his point here.

I think he sums it up well in just this one statement:

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

is that not an acceptable perspective to have? some people are more extreme than others? some people are more violent than others? some people are more anything than others? is this any different than all the many things that differentiate one person from another?

[LoathedVermin72]

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

Please tell me where I said the actions of extremists represent all Muslims. You are putting words in my mouth.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

YOUR comments are only cementing this impression.

We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

I simply don't understand how any religion that can inspire something like the attack today could ever be called "perfect." That just doesn't make any sense. I get that it's right for you, but "perfect"? Seriously?

lv, i can't figure out if you're being argumentative and stubborn or just missing his point here.

I think he sums it up well in just this one statement:

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

is that not an acceptable perspective to have? some people are more extreme than others? some people are more violent than others? some people are more anything than others? is this any different than all the many things that differentiate one person from another?

I think absolving the concepts themselves (meaning religions) from any culpability in the acts of extremists is a very dangerous and misguided thing to do.

Sure, not all Catholic priests are pedophiles. But the religious profession seems to create an inordinate number of them, does it not? Could that not perhaps indicate a fundamental flaw in the concept itself?

[LoathedVermin72]

Yes of course, you can mock all you want and I agree there should be no blood shed. But that does not mean we should accept the mocking no?

The question that interests me is how you propose this non-acceptance should be enforced.

I really wish fakeplasticdreams had answered this post.

[dimejinky99]

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

Please tell me where I said the actions of extremists represent all Muslims. You are putting words in my mouth.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

YOUR comments are only cementing this impression.

We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

I simply don't understand how any religion that can inspire something like the attack today could ever be called "perfect." That just doesn't make any sense. I get that it's right for you, but "perfect"? Seriously?

lv, i can't figure out if you're being argumentative and stubborn or just missing his point here.

I think he sums it up well in just this one statement:

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

is that not an acceptable perspective to have? some people are more extreme than others? some people are more violent than others? some people are more anything than others? is this any different than all the many things that differentiate one person from another?

I think absolving the concepts themselves (meaning religions) from any culpability in the acts of extremists is a very dangerous and misguided thing to do.

Sure, not all Catholic priests are pedophiles. But the religious profession seems to create an inordinate number of them, does it not? Could that not perhaps indicate a fundamental flaw in the concept itself?

Not in the concept, but in the evolution of the churches interpretation of it and it's constructs around it.

[LoathedVermin72]

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

Please tell me where I said the actions of extremists represent all Muslims. You are putting words in my mouth.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

YOUR comments are only cementing this impression.

We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

I simply don't understand how any religion that can inspire something like the attack today could ever be called "perfect." That just doesn't make any sense. I get that it's right for you, but "perfect"? Seriously?

lv, i can't figure out if you're being argumentative and stubborn or just missing his point here.

I think he sums it up well in just this one statement:

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

is that not an acceptable perspective to have? some people are more extreme than others? some people are more violent than others? some people are more anything than others? is this any different than all the many things that differentiate one person from another?

I think absolving the concepts themselves (meaning religions) from any culpability in the acts of extremists is a very dangerous and misguided thing to do.

Sure, not all Catholic priests are pedophiles. But the religious profession seems to create an inordinate number of them, does it not? Could that not perhaps indicate a fundamental flaw in the concept itself?

Not in the concept, but in the evolution of the churches interpretation of it and it's constructs around it.

Splitting hairs. Religion is all interpretation and constructs.

[nyquillyn]

I personally can't see how someone could associate themselves with a belief system that clearly inspires that level of violence and injustice. And to be honest, this is not a case of "some people interpret it this way and others interpret it that way." The Quran is legitimately filled with hate and calls on people to take action.

[LoathedVermin72]

I personally can't see how someone could associate themselves with a belief system that clearly inspires that level of violence and injustice. And to be honest, this is not a case of "some people interpret it this way and others interpret it that way." The Quran is legitimately filled with hate and calls people to take action.

[Rangi Guy]

Heh I was gonna say "at least Christianity ignores much of the worst stuff".

What gets me is that much of the worst stuff in the Quran is also in the bible, but Christians are usually oblivious. I always thought there would be far fewer Christians if more people actually read the Bible, rather than have someone read completely unrelated and carefully selected passages out of it. But at least Christianity ignores much of it when it suits us. I mean, not working on Sunday is one of the Big Ten, but most ignore that one. Usury? Thats cool now since our whole society is built on it. and so on.

Granted there's a lot of nasty stuff in the Bible - people screwing around with the laws god gave them and imposing punishments that they saw fitting. Then along came God on earth - Jesus who went against most of these man made laws, including the whole not working on a Sunday and said the following

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

and went on further to say

“But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful."

Not exactly words of hate, retribution or judgement - the problem is that most Christians project a version of god that suits them and that's where they screw up.

[dimejinky99]

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

Please tell me where I said the actions of extremists represent all Muslims. You are putting words in my mouth.

If Islam terrifies you, then im sorry that it gives you the impression that it does.

YOUR comments are only cementing this impression.

We Muslims think Islam is perfect, but the way some of Muslims lead our daily lives deserves valid criticism , that i will give to you.

I simply don't understand how any religion that can inspire something like the attack today could ever be called "perfect." That just doesn't make any sense. I get that it's right for you, but "perfect"? Seriously?

lv, i can't figure out if you're being argumentative and stubborn or just missing his point here.

I think he sums it up well in just this one statement:

Unfortunately you seem to think these nutcases action represents the other billions of Muslims who live day to day lives ignoring this shit and also the many who have been outspoken about these sort of issues.

is that not an acceptable perspective to have? some people are more extreme than others? some people are more violent than others? some people are more anything than others? is this any different than all the many things that differentiate one person from another?

I think absolving the concepts themselves (meaning religions) from any culpability in the acts of extremists is a very dangerous and misguided thing to do.

Sure, not all Catholic priests are pedophiles. But the religious profession seems to create an inordinate number of them, does it not? Could that not perhaps indicate a fundamental flaw in the concept itself?

Not in the concept, but in the evolution of the churches interpretation of it and it's constructs around it.

Splitting hairs. Religion is all interpretation and constructs.

Oh i agree completely..word of god is fine, it's us that mangle it.
Someone told me once the Quoran, the bible and the Torah pretty much all say the same things and have the same messages.
I've only read one of them, but i'd say it's true.

[LoathedVermin72]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Give a supernatural deity priority over your fellow humans.

[Rangi Guy]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Love a supernatural deity before your fellow humans.

Pretty much - don't put things of this world before the one who created you...... (if you believe in this faith system), don't see the issue with that

[LoathedVermin72]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Love a supernatural deity before your fellow humans.

Pretty much - don't put things of this world before the one who created you...... (if you believe in this faith system), don't see the issue with that

I understand; I've had many a long discussion with my mother about this subject. I get that Christians believe that matters of this world are petty by comparison to the divine. But, to me, that first suggestion immediately sets off alarm bells. Nothing should be given that kind of absolute faith, nothing should wield that kind of unconditional power over a person. Even saying a sentence like "don't put things of this world before [etc.]" is a red flag to me. It bristles against the deepest fiber of my being.

[Rangi Guy]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Love a supernatural deity before your fellow humans.

Pretty much - don't put things of this world before the one who created you...... (if you believe in this faith system), don't see the issue with that

I understand; I've had many a long discussion with my mother about this subject. I get that Christians believe that matters of this world are petty by comparison to the divine. But, to me, that first suggestion immediately sets off alarm bells. Nothing should be given that kind of absolute faith, nothing should wield that kind of unconditional power over a person. Even saying a sentence like "don't put things of this world before [etc.]" is a red flag to me. It bristles against the deepest fiber of my being.

And that's cool - I'm not here to try and convince you should believe what I believe. Was just trying to point out that as a Christian I'm not actually cherry picking what I believe so much as following those statements

[LoathedVermin72]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Love a supernatural deity before your fellow humans.

Pretty much - don't put things of this world before the one who created you...... (if you believe in this faith system), don't see the issue with that

I understand; I've had many a long discussion with my mother about this subject. I get that Christians believe that matters of this world are petty by comparison to the divine. But, to me, that first suggestion immediately sets off alarm bells. Nothing should be given that kind of absolute faith, nothing should wield that kind of unconditional power over a person. Even saying a sentence like "don't put things of this world before [etc.]" is a red flag to me. It bristles against the deepest fiber of my being.

And that's cool - I'm not here to try and convince you should believe what I believe. Was just trying to point out that as a Christian I'm not actually cherry picking what I believe so much as following those statements

But aren't you kind of cherry-picking by choosing that as the basis of your faith and ignoring everything else in the Bible?

[nyquillyn]

I miss Anon.

[dimejinky99]

Bill Hicks




Dear Sir,

After reading your letter expressing your concerns regarding my special “Revelations,” I felt duty-bound to respond to you myself in hopes of clarifying my position on the points you brought up, and perhaps enlighten you as to who I really am. Where I come from — America — there exists this wacky concept called “freedom of speech,” which many people feel is one of the paramount achievements in mankind’s mental development. I myself am a strong supporter of the “Right of freedom of speech,” as I’m sure most people would be if they truly understood the concept. “Freedom of speech” means you support the right of people to say exactly those ideas which you do not agree with. (Otherwise, you don’t believe in “freedom of speech,” but rather only those ideas which you believe to be acceptably stated.) Seeing as how there are so many different beliefs in the world, and as it would be virtually impossible for all of us to agree on any one belief, you may begin to realize just how important an idea like “freedom of speech” really is. The idea basically states “while I don’t agree or care for what you are saying, I do support your right to say it, for herein lies true freedom.”

It’s worth pausing here to note that in the DNA of the Christian Church, as an institution, is a compulsion to do precisely the opposite — to suppress the views that contradict its dogmas. One need only look to Galileo’s trails to appreciate how far back and how deeply these foundations of power-maintenance through censorship run. (But, of course, there’s always Flannery O’Connor to clarify the difference between dogmatic religion and faith.)

With his characteristic blend of snark and keen cultural insight, Hicks continues:

While I’ve found many of the religious shows I’ve viewed over the years not to be to my liking, or in line with my own beliefs, I’ve never considered it my place to exert any greater type of censorship than changing the channel, or better yet — turning off the TV completely.

Hicks moves on to the part of the letter that disturbed him the most:

In support of your position of outrage, you posit the hypothetical scenario regarding the possibly ‘angry’ reaction of Muslims to material they might find similarly offensive. Here is my question to you: Are you tacitly condoning the violent terrorism of a handful of thugs to whom the idea of ‘freedom of speech’ and tolerance is perhaps as foreign as Christ’s message itself? If you are somehow implying that their intolerance to contrary beliefs is justifiable, admirable, or perhaps even preferable to one of acceptance and forgiveness, then I wonder what your true beliefs really are.

If you had watched my entire show, you would have noticed in my summation of my beliefs the fervent plea to the governments of the world to spend less money on the machinery of war, and more on feeding, clothing, and educating the poor and needy of the world … A not-so-unchristian sentiment at that!

Ultimately, the message in my material is a call for understanding rather than ignorance, peace rather than war, forgiveness rather than condemnation, and love rather than fear. While this message may have understandably been lost on your ears (due to my presentation), I assure you the thousands of people I played to in my tours of the United Kingdom got it.

[Rangi Guy]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Love a supernatural deity before your fellow humans.

Pretty much - don't put things of this world before the one who created you...... (if you believe in this faith system), don't see the issue with that

I understand; I've had many a long discussion with my mother about this subject. I get that Christians believe that matters of this world are petty by comparison to the divine. But, to me, that first suggestion immediately sets off alarm bells. Nothing should be given that kind of absolute faith, nothing should wield that kind of unconditional power over a person. Even saying a sentence like "don't put things of this world before [etc.]" is a red flag to me. It bristles against the deepest fiber of my being.

And that's cool - I'm not here to try and convince you should believe what I believe. Was just trying to point out that as a Christian I'm not actually cherry picking what I believe so much as following those statements

But aren't you kind of cherry-picking by choosing that as the basis of your faith and ignoring everything else in the Bible?

Not ignoring it - believing that Jesus was God in human form - his words just kind of superseded the earlier stuff handed down before. Except for maybe the Sabbath one - all the other 10 commandments would be kept by following the original post. I can't say I'm any good at keeping them though, but I try. Truth is - I'm pretty awful person, just trying each day to be that little bit better

[LoathedVermin72]

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Read: Love a supernatural deity before your fellow humans.

Pretty much - don't put things of this world before the one who created you...... (if you believe in this faith system), don't see the issue with that

I understand; I've had many a long discussion with my mother about this subject. I get that Christians believe that matters of this world are petty by comparison to the divine. But, to me, that first suggestion immediately sets off alarm bells. Nothing should be given that kind of absolute faith, nothing should wield that kind of unconditional power over a person. Even saying a sentence like "don't put things of this world before [etc.]" is a red flag to me. It bristles against the deepest fiber of my being.

And that's cool - I'm not here to try and convince you should believe what I believe. Was just trying to point out that as a Christian I'm not actually cherry picking what I believe so much as following those statements

But aren't you kind of cherry-picking by choosing that as the basis of your faith and ignoring everything else in the Bible?

Not ignoring it - believing that Jesus was God in human form - his words just kind of superseded the earlier stuff handed down before. Except for maybe the Sabbath one - all the other 10 commandments would be kept by following the original post. I can't say I'm any good at keeping them though, but I try. Truth is - I'm pretty awful person, just trying each day to be that little bit better

I'd be lying if I said that didn't sound like classic cherry-picking to me, but, hey, man - whatever helps you get through the day.