Kanye West

[verb_to_trust]

I found a Tribe Called Quest CD in a rental car one time and really enjoyed it. I also own one Mos Def album and a Black Star album. I need some guidance.

if you like Blackstar you're already ahead of the game

you might like lupe,

Thanks Geg, I'll listen to this when I get home.

If I like it will you take me under your wing?

i like a lot of hood music but sure

Mural is a killer

[verb_to_trust]

Also, Prisoner 1 and 2

[epilogue]

I hope my post didn't come across the wrong way, dct -- growing up I felt much the same way that many rock fans feel about sampling in hip-hop (ultimately that the artists were "stealing" other people's songs for lack of their own skill -- for some reason, I remember this mindset really taking hold when Puff Daddy released that song "I'll Be Missing You" that heavily interpolated The Police's "Every Breath You Take"), but once I really took the time to immerse myself in the medium, I began to learn how specialized a skill it is on its own, and what a misconception it is to assume that the only reason an artist would choose to sample another artist's work is because they were "untalented" and probably secretly ashamed of their inability to play the instruments themselves.

I remember once listening to a Van Morrison compilation and hearing Them's cover of Dylan's "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue," which I had never heard but sounded vaguely familiar -- I soon realized that the Morrison recording basically comprised the entire backing track for Beck's "Jackass," a song I had known for years and had always assumed had been played by a live band. And certainly Beck wasn't someone I was about to accuse of not having the talent to play his own instruments -- he plays more than most. The Beastie Boys and The Roots are two more well-respected groups who are proficient on their instruments but sample(d) liberally. Figure there has to be something attractive about it as a creative tool that allows even instrumentally proficient artists like Beck to speak in a language they otherwise couldn't -- I mean, if it was commonly understood as an inferior way of doing things, certainly guys like Kanye could afford to hire a live band.

Anyway, I will shut up now. If there's room for one more, I'll cozy up for Zeppelin bootleg time too...

Solid post, KD. You articulated something that I've been dancing around in this thread: sometimes I just don't mind sampling and sometimes I do, sometimes it bugs the entire shit out of me. And I think you hit the nail on the head with your point/observation about The Beastie Boys and Beck. That's basically it right there.

[epilogue]

I feel like I should point out that mastering samples on ableton and protools and the like is more complicated/challenging than most musical instruments, so I don't know if there's much to that laziness accusation.

Good point. I played Pro Tools in my high school band.

Oh no, I laughed right out loud. For real.

[Alex]

i like led zeppelin and kanye west. what should i do?

[darth_vedder]

i like led zeppelin and kanye west. what should i do?

[William Bloke]

I attempted listening to my beautiful dark twisted fantasy on the way to work this morning. I enjoyed the first track. The subsequent 3 stressed me out so i put on Atmosphere "When life gives you lemons" and had a great time.

That Atmosphere record is great.

Guarantees is brilliant.

[Orpheus]

For those of you wanting excellent rap songs that aren't just chest-thumping (even though that's totally fucking my thing)











The Jay-Z song is a pretty early Kanye beat with a fantastic sample.

Rap is by far my favorite genre of music these days. My tastes in other media tend to be excessively arty and out there, so it really has little to do with disposability and popularity. Simply put, no other genre of music hits me with the same combination of visceral intensity, beauty, humor, and overall power that rap does.

[BurtReynolds]

heh this isn't bad.

Beckyonce:
http://www.nme.com/news/beck--2/82868

[Norah]

I hope my post didn't come across the wrong way, dct -- growing up I felt much the same way that many rock fans feel about sampling in hip-hop (ultimately that the artists were "stealing" other people's songs for lack of their own skill -- for some reason, I remember this mindset really taking hold when Puff Daddy released that song "I'll Be Missing You" that heavily interpolated The Police's "Every Breath You Take"), but once I really took the time to immerse myself in the medium, I began to learn how specialized a skill it is on its own, and what a misconception it is to assume that the only reason an artist would choose to sample another artist's work is because they were "untalented" and probably secretly ashamed of their inability to play the instruments themselves.

I remember once listening to a Van Morrison compilation and hearing Them's cover of Dylan's "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue," which I had never heard but sounded vaguely familiar -- I soon realized that the Morrison recording basically comprised the entire backing track for Beck's "Jackass," a song I had known for years and had always assumed had been played by a live band. And certainly Beck wasn't someone I was about to accuse of not having the talent to play his own instruments -- he plays more than most. The Beastie Boys and The Roots are two more well-respected groups who are proficient on their instruments but sample(d) liberally. Figure there has to be something attractive about it as a creative tool that allows even instrumentally proficient artists like Beck to speak in a language they otherwise couldn't -- I mean, if it was commonly understood as an inferior way of doing things, certainly guys like Kanye could afford to hire a live band.

Anyway, I will shut up now. If there's room for one more, I'll cozy up for Zeppelin bootleg time too...

We're not so different, you and I.

[Alex]

team chudavis

[LoathedVermin72]

So I know I'm late to the Kanye party, but man, MBDTF and Yeezus are fucking immense, powerful, intense artistic achievements. They're almost overwhelming.

[epilogue]

Real talk: Yeezus is literally one of the worst albums I've ever heard. Outside of two songs, it's unlistenable. I mean, it's painful. Just... like how can anyone listen to this bad. Like, how does this get the critical acclaim it receives, bad. Like what's wrong with me that people love this so much, maybe there's something deep down wrong with me in the marrow, maybe I should see a doctor terrible.

[LoathedVermin72]

I can totally see why you would feel that way. It's an aggressively abrasive album that I could easily see coming off as annoying. But I love that noisy, minimal intensity. I love the almost disjointed beats and rapping. It sounds wrong, which is so right for what it's doing.

[epilogue]

I can totally see why you would feel that way. It's an aggressively abrasive album that I could easily see coming off as annoying. But I love that noisy, minimal intensity. I love the almost disjointed beats and rapping. It sounds wrong, which is so right for what it's doing.

That's the thing, though. It ISN'T very aggressive. People keep saying it's so minimal and aggressive, comparing it to things like In Utero in it's rawness and aggression. But I don't hear that. It's so manufactured and manipulative and soulless. It's bad acting.

It is abrasive, I'll give it that. But not in a good way or interesting way. And probably not in the way he thinks/intended.

[LoathedVermin72]

I can totally see why you would feel that way. It's an aggressively abrasive album that I could easily see coming off as annoying. But I love that noisy, minimal intensity. I love the almost disjointed beats and rapping. It sounds wrong, which is so right for what it's doing.

That's the thing, though. It ISN'T very aggressive. People keep saying it's so minimal and aggressive, comparing it to things like In Utero in it's rawness and aggression. But I don't hear that. It's so manufactured and manipulative and soulless. It's bad acting.

It is abrasive, I'll give it that. But not in a good way or interesting way. And probably not in the way he thinks/intended.

Hmm. To be honest, I really don't see where you're coming from here. How is anything about it "manufactured" or "manipulative"? Because the production is refined and precise? I'm also not sure what makes you think the album plays differently than Kanye intended.

I'm not sure I would call it "raw" or compare to In Utero. This is aggressive and minimal, but again, it's very precise. It's not messy like that album.

[epilogue]

I can totally see why you would feel that way. It's an aggressively abrasive album that I could easily see coming off as annoying. But I love that noisy, minimal intensity. I love the almost disjointed beats and rapping. It sounds wrong, which is so right for what it's doing.

That's the thing, though. It ISN'T very aggressive. People keep saying it's so minimal and aggressive, comparing it to things like In Utero in it's rawness and aggression. But I don't hear that. It's so manufactured and manipulative and soulless. It's bad acting.

It is abrasive, I'll give it that. But not in a good way or interesting way. And probably not in the way he thinks/intended.

Hmm. To be honest, I really don't see where you're coming from here. How is anything about it "manufactured" or "manipulative"? Because the production is refined and precise? I'm also not sure what makes you think the album plays differently than Kanye intended.

I'm not sure I would call it "raw" or compare to In Utero. This is aggressive and minimal, but again, it's very precise. It's not messy like that album.

I'm fine with words like 'minimal' instead of 'raw.' Let's stick to words like that. Well done, sir.

[Kevin Davis]

I'm sure it's on file elsewhere on the board but I wasn't a fan of "Yeezus" either, dct -- apart from "Black Skinhead" and "New Slaves." I thought conceptually it was the right move -- going stark and dark after a lush masterpiece -- but a lot of it is just beyond my threshold for alpha-male misogyny, like even when the music is working for me I just can't sit there and groove along while he's saying some of the things he's saying. I also thought that, while the use of auto-tune on "808's and Heartbreak" had what seemed to me to be a clear artistic purpose that transcended its normal applications (and succeeded to precisely the effect I assume Kanye meant it to), the fact that he brought it back on "Yeezus" (and then again on that single with Paul McCartney) makes me worry that he has a delusional perception of its capacity as a creative tool, not to mention of how many songs the world really needs that feature him as an R&B singer. But one thing I can say in spite of anything he does to rub me the wrong way is that I will almost always be excited to see what he does next. Even when I don't like what he does, it does compel and challenge me in a way that makes me think, which I respect.

[LoathedVermin72]

Is there really much "alpha-male misogyny" on Yeezus, though? The most questionable song would probably be "I'm in It", but even that is just a graphic song about sex, which is certainly not inherently misogynistic. And the grandiose, spacey beat (and the revelatory final verse) adds an extra level to the song that make you stop and think about its intentions and implications.

I think a lot of the aggressive (sometimes sexual) rhetoric is germane to the album's confrontational nature.

[Kevin Davis]

I haven't played the album for a while, LV, but that was the impression I always came away with. I remember several others (on RM, if memory serves) commenting to the same effect, and also remember Robert Christgau making a similar remark in his year-end article thingy for Barnes and Noble. If nothing else, I do remember it seeming a lot darker and meaner on "Yeezus," where on previous records it had been offset by more wit, humor, vulnerability, brighter melodic samples, etc. -- so maybe it's just a matter of an uncut dose of the same stuff giving a harsher buzz. Either way, it hasn't had me rushing back to play the album.