A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books)

[jwfocker]

I just hope this doesn't mean the Riverlands storyline is totally cut. At least the Siege of Riverrun would be nice to have. I want to see Edmure and Blackfish again.

I really hope they do as well. They made a point of showing the Blackfish walking out just before the red wedding hit the fan so I'm thinking they did that in order to do the Siege of Riverrun. #bigfanoftheblackfish

[Norah]

Despite them changing so much of Jamie's storyline I thought it was kind of cool that Bronn is his travel companion to Dorne. He's going to Dorne instead of the Riverlands, and with Bronn instead of *Janos but in both instances he's traveling with the person who helped him train after losing his hand.

*Illyn Payne

this isn't the first time you mixed them up

I'm awful at this.

[epilogue]

it's widely believed that the man known as Jaqen assumed the face of a Pate at the Citadel. I think its a fine change as it keeps viewers from adding another character, especially one without a name.

I want them to do the Citadel storyline so badly! I'm totally prepared to see it cut. But god that was such a huge HOLY SHIT moment in book 4. But all of it, the Alchemist and Sam... all of it. I feel like Sam has to end up at the Citadel somehow even if they cut Pate.

I don't think the Kindly Man ever took his form. In the show, I didn't take the KM taking his form as them even being the same character. Faceless man can take any form so that really doesn't mean anything.

Exactly.

There are a lot of theories that JH is also another character that we met before we met him. So the face doesn't really matter. It's cool, as visual medium, to see the TV show go in this direction though. To see the same actor is a smart move. Plus, I totese fist-pumped when he appeared.

I know everyone is pretty much assuming the young Aegon isn't included in the show, but there was a hint of mystery in Varys and Tyrion's conversation this week about going to Volantis before Mereen which made me think we might run into them after all.

Yerp.

He even says something along the lines of "to find a ruler" or some such. They'll introduce him. Pretty much have to. I'm not sure why folks we so certain that it wasn't happening.

[Mecca]

I'm not sure why folks we so certain that it wasn't happening.

probably because of this:

Spoiler: show

[epilogue]

I don't... what?

[Norah]

They're slashing the book to pieces with no regard for the text inside.

[epilogue]

Ah.

Sorry everybody!

[Norah]

I'm gonna respond to your post in the show thread here, Joey.

I really enjoyed books 4 and 5, they're probably my favorite of the series. By this point in the story the world is wide open, the loomings wars are still incredibly suspenseful in that you have little to no idea how they're going to turn out, but their presence can be felt right against everything that is going on. The events at the wall post Stannis showing up are some of my favorite parts of the entire series, and then there's Aegon taking Storm's End, the shit going on in Dorne, Tyrion with Jorah, the struggle for the North with the Boltons consolidating their power, all happening at the same time. You can tell the entire world is going to explode, and all the events in the previous books seem like flashes in a pan compared to the powder keg that is about to blow up. I loved it so much.

The events at the wall on the show are turning into a huge disappointment. After episode two it seems like Stannis is just going to be ok with Jon preventing his order of burning Mance to death from being carried through, which is so incredibly out of character as even he himself points out when he refers to Davos's fingers. I don't understand why they didn't just execute him for deserting the Night's Watch and have Stannis indifferent to the method of execution.

And then the election. In the book it was an ordeal, and all of Sam's work was done behind the scenes without Jon even knowing he was being pushed as a candidate. In the show it just happens over dinner and Sams makes his face while Jon sits there and lets him.

I'm definitely still enjoying the show a lot as I watch it, but when I compare it to the books it's turning into a disappointment.

[epilogue]

Well said, Pete.

I'm trying not to compare it to the books too much. Which is, of course, next to impossible. But I'm trying to just let it be. Especially since it seems like so much of the stuff I adore in book 4 is getting totally cut -- not even changed, but totally fucking axed.

I mean are we really not going to get the Kingsmoot or any of the Iron Islands infighting? Why introduce Asha/Yara if you're not going to dive into all that badassness? And is Baylon still alive on the show? He is right? How the fuck is that? Shouldn't we have three dead "kings" at this point? BAH!

These are two totally different animals (TV and novels), and I totally get that. Some of the changes are necessary. But I think more justice could have been done to Jon and Mance and Stannis and The Wall.

[epilogue]

But, yeah, more to Pete's point about setup and explosion: Book 6 has the potential to be the most epic book in the series. Books 4 and 5 are so much of a chess game, a moving around of pieces. Book 6, if it's the culmination of all that work, could destroy expectations and blow the previous events/excitement/horror of Book 3 right out of the goddamn Blackwater.

[Norah]

But, yeah, more to Pete's point about setup and explosion: Book 6 has the potential to be the most epic book in the series. Books 4 and 5 are so much of a chess game, a moving around of pieces. Book 6, if it's the culmination of all that work, could destroy expectations and blow the previous events/excitement/horror of Book 3 right out of the goddamn Blackwater.

Exactly.

[Mecca]

Crows has this huge fucking drag on it called the Iron Islands and its a huge part of that book. Its all setup to placing Victarion Greyjoy on the path to Meereen to be a part of the battle. It has some decent plots like the Arianne Martell storyline and the culmination of that reveal. I get the point of splitting the 2 books and keeping POV characters simple in numbers and the trick of Davos being dead from the Cersei POV really makes the twist worth it, but I would've much preferred reading the 2 books as they happen concurrently. Also less Asha tooling around the Iron Islands with her nuncle

[bada]

Jesus I need to read these books again. Half the stuff you guys are talking about I have zero memory of.

[Simple Torture]

The Iron Island lore is much more interesting than the Iron Islands storylines--at least for now. I feel like the Kingsmoot was less dramatically engaging than it could've been because we didn't yet know all of the characters very well. If it happens again--like if Theon makes a claim somehow, or if Asha gets new backing and support--I'd be more invested. Also, I feel like we haven't heard the end of Balon's death.

[Monkey_Driven]

But, yeah, more to Pete's point about setup and explosion: Book 6 has the potential to be the most epic book in the series. Books 4 and 5 are so much of a chess game, a moving around of pieces. Book 6, if it's the culmination of all that work, could destroy expectations and blow the previous events/excitement/horror of Book 3 right out of the goddamn Blackwater.

Exactly.

That it does.

[Mecca]

The Iron Island lore is much more interesting than the Iron Islands storylines--at least for now. I feel like the Kingsmoot was less dramatically engaging than it could've been because we didn't yet know all of the characters very well. If it happens again--like if Theon makes a claim somehow, or if Asha gets new backing and support--I'd be more invested. Also, I feel like we haven't heard the end of Balon's death.

"I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings."

Euron Greyjoy hired a faceless man

[Mecca]

I think we could see Balon's death in the show happen really soon with a "previously on" showing Stannis throwing the leeches into the fire speaking Robb's, Joffrey's, and Balon's names

[epilogue]

I think we could see Balon's death in the show happen really soon with a "previously on" showing Stannis throwing the leeches into the fire speaking Robb's, Joffrey's, and Balon's names

[epilogue]

The shift in theme in Book 4 is my favorite thing about the entire series. The feminist stuff is phenomenal. Placing women in serious positions of power and/or the attempted hindrance thereof and what that speaks to in the larger spectrum is what I really responded to in that book.

So cutting Asha and the QUEENSmoot neuters a god part of that. I also doubt they'll handle Myrcella and Sarella appropriately. Which is a bummer. Again, I get that you can't fit all that stuff into a limited run TV show. But that stuff is so powerful. And it's one of the major things that sets Martin's story apart in all of fantasy fiction.

[Mecca]

The shift in theme in Book 4 is my favorite thing about the entire series. The feminist stuff is phenomenal. Placing women in serious positions of power and/or the attempted hindrance thereof and what that speaks to in the larger spectrum is what I really responded to in that book.

So cutting Asha and the QUEENSmoot neuters a god part of that. I also doubt they'll handle Myrcella and Sarella appropriately. Which is a bummer. Again, I get that you can't fit all that stuff into a limited run TV show. But that stuff is so powerful. And it's one of the major things that sets Martin's story apart in all of fantasy fiction.

but with the women trying to assume power all pretty much failing at doing so, exactly how pro-women is that?