Matt Cameron Appreciation Thread

[Norah]

Another example is The Mynabirds Give It Time. It's already my favorite song of theirs but the daytrotter session performance is just a bit slower and has this dragging lull to it that is just tops.

[stip]

Sometimes when you play something too fast, a lot of the nuance of what made it great in the first place is completely lost.

For example, I never liked the Nirvana song "Mexican Seafood" much. Then I heard an early demo version of the song with a different drummer and a slower tempo, and it made total sense. The studio version on "Incesticide" completely loses the nuances of the original guitar riff and rhythm because it's played fast and indifferently, like they just wanted to get it over with, so it comes off as a sloppy mess. This is definitely the case with the current state of many a Pearl Jam song.

Totally. I think Given To Fly is the best(worst?) example of this.

Corduroy too.

It would be interesting to hear them play these songs in an empty room. Some of the speed up is due to the live/crowd effect, I think. There's so much kinetic energy in the room it would be hard to slow down.

[Yeddie Yedder]

Evenflow and Rearviewmirror have become pee breaks for me. Those songs loose their groove and heaviness when played at the current tempo. Evenflow is a terrible mess at this point.

[LetMeSleep]

Sometimes when you play something too fast, a lot of the nuance of what made it great in the first place is completely lost.

For example, I never liked the Nirvana song "Mexican Seafood" much. Then I heard an early demo version of the song with a different drummer and a slower tempo, and it made total sense. The studio version on "Incesticide" completely loses the nuances of the original guitar riff and rhythm because it's played fast and indifferently, like they just wanted to get it over with, so it comes off as a sloppy mess. This is definitely the case with the current state of many a Pearl Jam song.

Totally. I think Given To Fly is the best(worst?) example of this.

Corduroy too.

It would be interesting to hear them play these songs in an empty room. Some of the speed up is due to the live/crowd effect, I think. There's so much kinetic energy in the room it would be hard to slow down.

Except that they are professionals.

[Norah]

Sometimes when you play something too fast, a lot of the nuance of what made it great in the first place is completely lost.

For example, I never liked the Nirvana song "Mexican Seafood" much. Then I heard an early demo version of the song with a different drummer and a slower tempo, and it made total sense. The studio version on "Incesticide" completely loses the nuances of the original guitar riff and rhythm because it's played fast and indifferently, like they just wanted to get it over with, so it comes off as a sloppy mess. This is definitely the case with the current state of many a Pearl Jam song.

Totally. I think Given To Fly is the best(worst?) example of this.

Corduroy too.

It would be interesting to hear them play these songs in an empty room. Some of the speed up is due to the live/crowd effect, I think. There's so much kinetic energy in the room it would be hard to slow down.

Except that they are professionals.

Seriously. Other bands don't have this problem.

[Birds in Hell]

I don't know if speed alone is the culprit. The band played songs faster live with both Dave and Jack without drastically changing the feel, I think it's more likely that the speed tends to highlight Matt's stiffer rhythmic approach.

I should add that I think Matt's powerhouse drumming is perfect for Soundgarden. It's fascinating (well, for me) to watch the videos of the latter playing with Matt Chamberlain last year, his more laidback drumming makes the songs feel really different:

[stip]

Sometimes when you play something too fast, a lot of the nuance of what made it great in the first place is completely lost.

For example, I never liked the Nirvana song "Mexican Seafood" much. Then I heard an early demo version of the song with a different drummer and a slower tempo, and it made total sense. The studio version on "Incesticide" completely loses the nuances of the original guitar riff and rhythm because it's played fast and indifferently, like they just wanted to get it over with, so it comes off as a sloppy mess. This is definitely the case with the current state of many a Pearl Jam song.

Totally. I think Given To Fly is the best(worst?) example of this.

Corduroy too.

It would be interesting to hear them play these songs in an empty room. Some of the speed up is due to the live/crowd effect, I think. There's so much kinetic energy in the room it would be hard to slow down.

Except that they are professionals.

Seriously. Other bands don't have this problem.

I presume they could. Would they want to? Slowing down would possibly diminish the effect. We largely judge live pj on the board on the basis of boots and videos, but they are constructing their performance for the people in front of them.

[Kevin Davis]

Sometimes when you play something too fast, a lot of the nuance of what made it great in the first place is completely lost.

For example, I never liked the Nirvana song "Mexican Seafood" much. Then I heard an early demo version of the song with a different drummer and a slower tempo, and it made total sense. The studio version on "Incesticide" completely loses the nuances of the original guitar riff and rhythm because it's played fast and indifferently, like they just wanted to get it over with, so it comes off as a sloppy mess. This is definitely the case with the current state of many a Pearl Jam song.

Totally. I think Given To Fly is the best(worst?) example of this.

Corduroy too.

It would be interesting to hear them play these songs in an empty room. Some of the speed up is due to the live/crowd effect, I think. There's so much kinetic energy in the room it would be hard to slow down.

Except that they are professionals.

Seriously. Other bands don't have this problem.

I don't think this is true. I can think of quite a few artists who do it, and I think Stip is right -- the adrenaline really contributes to it.

[evenslow]

Most bands I've seen play faster. It's a natural occurrence.

Not to say that Corduroy and Evenflow wouldn't benefit from taking it down a notch.

I actually think GTF benefits from a more rapid pace. It would be too boring for them to stand there and play at album speed. Unless they did it acoustic like Mike does in PJ20. Then that'd work.

[Kevin Davis]

The speed by itself is pretty low on the list of things that irk me about modern PJ performances ("modern" being a fairly general term, mind you -- I was pretty pleased with the 2014 shows that I heard). They played pretty fast on the second leg of the 2000 tour, too, and on the Euro and Australian legs of the 2006 tour, and those shows were amazing. It's only when Ed's fumbling with the words and the band are missing transitions and chord changes that the speed begins to me to feel like just one more component of the sloppiness. I mean, I agree that the ideal versions of these songs are played at more restrained tempos, but it does feel natural to me that they'd pick up some speed in a live setting, especially old songs that a) they're really familiar with, and b) generate an enthusiastic crowd response.

[matt reeder]

Unless a band uses a click track in their IEM (many bands do), they will inevitably start playing their songs faster and faster as they get to know a song better. It isn't just a Pearl Jam or a Matt Cameron phenomenon. It's a lot of bands. Having collected bootlegs from dozens of bands, most of them play their songs a lot faster as time goes on.

I'm with Kevin - the speed doesn't bother me as much as the sloppiness. Modern PJ can still sound awesome and sometimes does (see Leeds from last year) but the issue is the overall sloppiness of the band, and Ed's declining vocal abilities. And of course, the shitty songs from the last few albums.

[Norah]

But they're also professional musicians who could take stock of the way their songs have drifted over the years and correct for it.

I think it was at one of the Philly 09 shows, they played Tremor Christ at the proper pace and at the end Ed mumbles something like "was that slow enough for you?". Like someone on their crew told them to slow the fuck down, they did, and were really annoyed by it.

[Strat]

But they're also professional musicians who could take stock of the way their songs have drifted over the years and correct for it.

I think it was at one of the Philly 09 shows, they played Tremor Christ at the proper pace and at the end Ed mumbles something like "was that slow enough for you?". Like someone on their crew told them to slow the fuck down, they did, and were really annoyed by it.

I think you maybe made this up. maybe.

[Norah]

But they're also professional musicians who could take stock of the way their songs have drifted over the years and correct for it.

I think it was at one of the Philly 09 shows, they played Tremor Christ at the proper pace and at the end Ed mumbles something like "was that slow enough for you?". Like someone on their crew told them to slow the fuck down, they did, and were really annoyed by it.

I think you maybe made this up. maybe.

It happens.

[Yeddie Yedder]

But they're also professional musicians who could take stock of the way their songs have drifted over the years and correct for it.

I think it was at one of the Philly 09 shows, they played Tremor Christ at the proper pace and at the end Ed mumbles something like "was that slow enough for you?". Like someone on their crew told them to slow the fuck down, they did, and were really annoyed by it.

I think you maybe made this up. maybe.

It happens.

I want to live in a world where this did happen.

The guys I play with, sometimes we practice w clicks when we feel our live performances are getting too fast and subsequently sloppy. The two go hand in hand more often than not. Granted, we don't play sold out shows at MSG or really any sold out shows, but it something any touring band needs to be aware of.

The last show I attended was San Diego 2013 and they played Sometimes. At the start, I was so excited as I haven't heard it live since Augusta 96 and then I began to hear how fast (and muddy) it sounded. It didn't sound good at all. I felt the same way with Off He Goes.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Yeddie Yedder]

Awesome! Augusta was also my first show! I think I have a boot in my external. However, the quality ins't great. I am sure it isn't from the board. Will check.

[Kevin Davis]

If you're sitting on a '96 soundboard, you will be RMer of the year.

[Redemption]

he was playing a jazz set for 3 people, me and my 2 friends, in this dive bar a few blocks from my house in Ballard.

After they played, I introduced myself to Matt, and made a fool of myself. everything was cool all normal and theni went full retard. all star struck and shit. it was awkward for sure.


but hey, i met him.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now