Batman V: Superman Dawn of Justice

[bada]

DC and Marvel despite ripping off each others characters are pretty different at their core I'm glad they are going for a different feel on film.

[nyquillyn]

I agree with LV to a point. But I sure as fuck wouldn't call Snyder a "visionary". To me, MoS was every bit as vapid as those stupid Avengers movie.

[LoathedVermin72]

Um, Man of Steel was just destruction porn

I thought so the first time I saw it, but I was very, very wrong. The second viewing made me fall in love with it. It's a lot more than that.

It is a lot more than that. Except the 45 minutes of nothing but destruction. There is literally nothing else going on.

Sure, but that destruction is not mindless, and Snyder's direction and editing are at their best. I think those 45 minutes are very beautiful.

[Kaius]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

So you hate the Marvel movies too?

Not all of them.

[Kaius]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

But I don't necessarily think Ruddo meant that by saying "mindless entertainment".

[McParadigm]

Um, Man of Steel was just destruction porn

I thought so the first time I saw it, but I was very, very wrong. The second viewing made me fall in love with it. It's a lot more than that.

It is a lot more than that. Except the 45 minutes of nothing but destruction. There is literally nothing else going on.

Man of Steel was like 30 minutes of interesting movie footage interwoven as excerpts into an already 2-hour long hunk of crap. But a lot of the worst parts (first 20 and last 40 minutes were pretty irredeemable) did feel a lot more Marvel than the rest of it.

[McParadigm]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

What is awful need not be mindless, but what is mindless can never be great.

[Kaius]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

What is awful need not be mindless, but what is mindless can never be great.

Pretty much, McFortuneCookie.

[E.H. Ruddock]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

What is awful need not be mindless, but what is mindless can never be great.

[bada]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

What is awful need not be mindless, but what is mindless can never be great.

Pretty much, McFortuneCookie.

[epilogue]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

What is awful need not be mindless, but what is mindless can never be great.

Absolutes are dangerous, McP.

[E.H. Ruddock]

DC is only one movie in I don't see how you can compare the two.

I can't. Good point.

No ones ever told me good point before I'm not sure what to say.

This is where we hug

[McParadigm]

If a movie is so awful that I need to shut my brain off to enjoy it then I am 100% of the time going to turn off that movie.

Awful and mindless aren't the same thing, K.

What is awful need not be mindless, but what is mindless can never be great.

Absolutes are dangerous, McP.

Absolutely.

[bada]

DC is only one movie in I don't see how you can compare the two.

I can't. Good point.

No ones ever told me good point before I'm not sure what to say.

This is where we hug

[E.H. Ruddock]

DC is only one movie in I don't see how you can compare the two.

I can't. Good point.

No ones ever told me good point before I'm not sure what to say.

This is where we hug

[bada]

DC is only one movie in I don't see how you can compare the two.

I can't. Good point.

No ones ever told me good point before I'm not sure what to say.

This is where we hug

[stip]

The marvel movies generally feature snappy dialogue, colorful, well cast, entertaining main characters who have enough superficial depth to make you have to actively look to find out that they're often thinly drawn (and I'm too busy having fun to look), lots of larger than life spectacle, and the sense of thrill and discovery that comes from world building.

There is a lot to love there. Marvel movies wouldn't appear on my best movies lists, but they are fast becoming the things I am most looking forward to in the theater. They are superb popcorn entertainment that manage to be mindless without being stupid.

My whole general pre-emptive beef with the darker (which we too often and mistakenly associate with deeper) take that DC seems to be going for is that larger than life superhero movies are generally a shitty vehicle through which one can say anything meaningful about the human condition, unless your superheroes are background forces of nature that normal people are forced to interact with. And there is going to be nothing normal about a batman that can fight superman.

I think Nolan's batman movies are very smart and say lots of interesting things (I started doing preliminary work on an article about the political theory in those movies but it got shelved when I got too busy--I still regularly show dark knight in one of my classes), but they are able to do it in part by ensuring that everything that happens within these movies remains within the realm of human power and comprehension, and because the really interesting things that the movie says have little to do with people punching each other in the face.


I like the BvS trailers and I think the movie is going to be entertaining. I don't think it's going to be any smarter than the marvel movies. I suspect we will still have some variation of

Batman has to grapple with what superman means
Batman grapples with it by punching superman in the face
Something else that requires punching in the face shows up
Batman and Superman and for some reason Wonder Woman start punching it in the face together
They punch themselves to victory and await the next thing to punch.

Which, like it or not, is also the plot of every marvel movie.

[BurtReynolds]

These DC movies pander a lot more than Marvel's did (up to this point, as they are getting rather stale.) That wouldn't be so bad if the end result wasn't so hilariously dated. Its as if both DC comics still thinks its core audience listens to Marilyn Manson and wears black trenchcoats and thinks "mature" means more blood and boobies. Ignoring the source material wouldn't be so bad if the end result didn't look like something out of The Matrix.

Where Marvel unapologetically put its product right onscreen (at a time when brightly colored genuine heroes being heroic was the definition of uncool; there was little pandering there), both DC comics and these movies seem perpetually embarrassed by its source material and would do anything to convince you that they are cool. How LV sees anything new or important in these movies is beyond me. They reek of studio notes and production meetings, not independent artists creating their own visions.

The fact that their view of the target audience is so warped is just icing on the cake, but "darker and grittier" always sells, so I'm sure they'll get their investment back.

[BurtReynolds]

Also, whatever high minded themes are buried in MoS are rendered moot by the flubbed execution of those ideas. If you have to make characters act out character, ignore any and all logic and motivation, and create plotholes you can drive a truck through to cram your vision in, you've failed.

Also also, it's been great fun seeing Marvel build up its universe, though at this point its become too unwieldy and cluttered. They've stretched it out into a painful cash grab at this point, but I have to admire the spectacle and audacity of it all. I doubt it will end well, but it was a fun ride. DC's belated attempt seems a lot more mercenary to me, though.

[bada]

People are so tribal. If I like this I must detest that.