The next order of business for OB

[Strat]

What a society of uncultured ruffians we've become!

I think he has a point.

of course you do

I used to think Spenno was an 85 year old grandpa but now im wondering if im not off by 100 years.

I only had time to give it a cursory read earlier so I'm hesitant to agree with the article wholesale but I certainly do have a degree of sympathy for the idea that the popular arts have become aggressively and unavoidably more low brow and that all of us are probably poorer for it. I realise this makes me sound like a dreadful curmudgeon but I don't hold myself apart from that criticism - I think my tastes are as deeply flawed as anybody else's, probably more so. I've unavoidably been shaped by that culture too.

As an aside because it's briefly mentioned in the piece and it seems like something that's often brought up in these discussions, I'm not remotely persuaded that there is anything inequitable about the payments flowing to artists from streaming services. A few cents per streamed song honestly seems about right to me, it's not as though the listener doesn't have the option to pay more for a permanent copy in some form if they choose to.

im actually in agreement with you on the main point as well. Music matters to me and i wish it really meant something to the greater public. These sort of articles are difficult for me to relate to in the sense that I stream music yet I fucking love music and its not just a matter of ease for me. I dont want a hit single that gets wallowed up in some bad playlist I make. Streaming music has helped me discover so many artists I may never have and ive become even more passionate about music because of it. I understand this is probably not the case for 95% of "music" listeners around the globe.

[Birds in Hell]

I think you can see how that destructive democratisation ends up becoming more entrenched over time as artists draw inspiration from an narrower and shallower range of influences. I have this theory that most current rock music sounds terrible to me largely because its only informed by rock music of the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on - in contrast, the guys in bands such as Black Sabbath or Pink Floyd (to say nothing of the more experimental or exploratory bands of that time) were influenced by classical, blues and jazz to a significant degree. It's like a modern horror director drawing only upon 70s and 80s horror films as their inspiration, the scope becomes so incredibly limited that it's simply a hollow genre exercise.

[Norah]

I think you can see how that destructive democratisation ends up becoming more entrenched over time as artists draw inspiration from an narrower and shallower range of influences. I have this theory that most current rock music sounds terrible to me largely because its only informed by rock music of the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on - in contrast, the guys in bands such as Black Sabbath or Pink Floyd (to say nothing of the more experimental or exploratory bands of that time) were influenced by classical, blues and jazz to a significant degree. It's like a modern horror director drawing only upon 70s and 80s horror films as their inspiration, the scope becomes so incredibly limited that it's simply a hollow genre exercise.

interesting, makes sense

[BurtReynolds]

it ebbs and flows, but i don't think musicians are drawing influences from less sources today than they were in some mythical good ole days that never existed. Though I'm not one to complain about the artists who draw heavily from the 70s and 80s, even if it does get incestuous after a point. I still love that stuff and think there is plenty to mine from there.

[ridleybradout]

I'm not remotely persuaded that there is anything inequitable about the payments flowing to artists from streaming services. A few cents per streamed song honestly seems about right to me.

If only it was that high - apparently it's something like 0.6 cent per stream.

[Birds in Hell]

I'm not remotely persuaded that there is anything inequitable about the payments flowing to artists from streaming services. A few cents per streamed song honestly seems about right to me.

If only it was that high - apparently it's something like 0.6 cent per stream.

When you can buy a song in some form for 99c or close enough, I guess I don't think that's terribly unfair - and unarguably better than nothing at all, which is the only alternative in practice.

[Birds in Hell]

Just wanted to add that I very much share the same concerns as the author of that piece in regards to the disappearance of liner notes in the digital/streaming age and the loss of the greater depth of context they can provide to music.

Particularly in regards to music that has been available in a variety of different mixes, masterings or versions over the years - am I hearing the original mix or a later remix? Is it the single version or the album version that had additional overdubs, etc? Where can a listener find that information?

[Strat]

Just wanted to add that I very much share the same concerns as the author of that piece in regards to the disappearance of liner notes in the digital/streaming age and the loss of the greater depth of context they can provide to music.

Particularly in regards to music that has been available in a variety of different mixes, masterings or versions over the years - am I hearing the original mix or a later remix? Is it the single version or the album version that had additional overdubs, etc? Where can a listener find that information?

Buy a record spenno.

[McParadigm]

People used to sing these songs just for fun.
Now you've gotta have the money, if you wanna sing along

The simplest answer to this is that the technology no longer best supports a scenario in which a handful of mega corporations and a select collection of wealthy "stars" define the industry. More realistically, you're looking at an exponentially larger collection of people making music but less money available in the way that money was best made: creating access.

So sorry, minstrels, but there is no way forward that will take you back, and music just isn't going to be a full-time job for as many people anymore. I do feel bad for people who have basically made it their life, are now too old to do much else, but who didn't make enough money in the initial run to sustain them. And, I guess, for whatever young people there are still out there who are fooled into the dream and not creating a back-up plan.

[Strat]

I think pop music is rather dull and dumbing people down, or at the very least, lowering expectations of what is good. Bro Country? Lol.

Due to the digital age, there are so many more ways for people to get their music heard, bands can go on tour and build without the help of a record company. As McP says, the money wont be there anymore and I feel the 90's were the last period where rock stars were made. I feel digital has helped the music connoisseur but for the general public it has probably hurt the artists. This is a nice article/interview with Shirley manson and i thought this point was great:

From where I sit, I think any time is a good time for women in music," she admits that the '90s were "definitely a different era."

It was the era of The Misfit.

"I love that word, 'misfit,'" Manson giggles over the phone, as she prepares to play the first night of Garbage's 20th anniversary tour. "It's wonderful to be a misfit! Even if we're all led to believe that it's not. Right now, the biggest stars we have are female pop stars, and that's amazing. But what was beautiful for me in the '90s is we were privileged to the minds of the rebel girls who weren't conforming to the expected norms of so-called, at the time, female behaviors. You saw all the girls who weren't playing by the rules. And they had the chance to do mainstream radio. We got onto front covers of magazines and we were always on television, all over the world!

"Don't get me wrong, there's so many pop stars [today] that I adore. I'm obsessed with Rihanna and Beyoncé and Lady Gaga. They're fantastic and I'm not trying to diminish them at all; that's not my intention," Manson continues. "I guess what I'm trying to say is all these girls that are successful right now, they were the 'cheerleaders.' They were the ones who were the best singers; they had the best bodies. But what was great about the '90s was that it was all the fragile and f---ed-up people who had their chance to be heard. And they were the ones that ruled the mainstream. I'd say the one commonality between everyone who loves our band is this feeling of not being 'the winner.'"

[LoathedVermin72]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

[@SkitchP]

I think you can see how that destructive democratisation ends up becoming more entrenched over time as artists draw inspiration from an narrower and shallower range of influences. I have this theory that most current rock music sounds terrible to me largely because its only informed by rock music of the 60s, 70s, 80s and so on - in contrast, the guys in bands such as Black Sabbath or Pink Floyd (to say nothing of the more experimental or exploratory bands of that time) were influenced by classical, blues and jazz to a significant degree. It's like a modern horror director drawing only upon 70s and 80s horror films as their inspiration, the scope becomes so incredibly limited that it's simply a hollow genre exercise.

That's bul.. well actually, a pretty darn solid point.

[Strat]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

Shut up, you child of the aughts

[LoathedVermin72]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

Shut up, you child of the aughts

Technically I am a child of the '80s, Strat.

[Strat]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

Shut up, you child of the aughts

Technically I am a child of the '80s, Strat.

You know what Im getting at.

[LoathedVermin72]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

Shut up, you child of the aughts

Technically I am a child of the '80s, Strat.

You know what Im getting at.

Team LV

[darth_vedder]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

I didn't really interpret it that way. From her quote, she was just saying that the 90's wasn't as "me me me" or "selfie". To me, the present, with pop music and tight jeans, is like the 80's part 2. The 90's, especially the mid 90's, seemed like things shifted big time. "Me" was out. High fashion glamor was out. A different, more earthy vibe was in. And cargo pants, cargo pants were definitely in. I'm not saying one was better than the other, but it was definitely different.

[LoathedVermin72]

God I hate that kind of glorification of self-loathing misfit culture. Ugh. As much as I love a lot of the music, I'm really glad the '90s rock paradigm is over.

I didn't really interpret it that way. From her quote, she was just saying that the 90's wasn't as "me me me" or "selfie". To me, the present, with pop music and tight jeans, is like the 80's part 2. The 90's, especially the mid 90's, seemed like things shifted big time. "Me" was out. High fashion glamor was out. A different, more earthy vibe was in. And cargo pants, cargo pants were definitely in. I'm not saying one was better than the other, but it was definitely different.

Let's not delude ourselves into believing the '90s weren't narcissistic as all hell. Being unglamorous sad-sacks doesn't mean it's any less self-centered.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I'm with spenno on the liner notes issue

[LoathedVermin72]

Nobody cares about liner notes you grandpas