How The West Was Won And Where It Got Us: An REM Thread

[chewm]

Loving all the love for "Up".

[Chris_H_2]

that's an album with absolutely no direction or cohesiveness. it was a quiet mess.

*edit: I was referring to around the sun

[chewm]

Maybe but the songs are mostly good.

[Chris_H_2]

that's the thing. i listen to the songs in isolation, because they are mostly decent. but i haven't listened to that album start to finish probably since our last rem song tourney (which was probably about a year and a half ago). and i have no motivation to do so.

[philpritchard]

Up and Reveal are the two that have never really hit me the way most of their other stuff has, for some reason. Even the songs I really like now took me a while to come around on.

[Norah]

I loved Up from the very first listen. I didn't understand why people wouldn't consider it worthy to stand alongside the rest of the 90s output.

[tragabigzanda]

Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb

I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem

[stip]

I have to get in my semi-annual plug for "Around the Sun," an album which it seems no one likes but me. I think the first 2/3 of that album is top-shelf REM -- the criticism of the clinical production isn't unjustified, but songwriting-wise there is very little in my mind to justify its reputation as an "off" album -- the writing feels very locked-in and engaged to me (as Stip says, it wears its moment in time on its sleeve, but I don't know that that lessens the depth of its craft). I remember Peter Buck complaining once that the album took forever to make, and I suppose I can see that -- it feels overworked in places. But in that overwork I also detect a sense of focus not necessarily readily apparent on their other records. I dunno -- it's one of the good ones to me.

There's lots of solid songs on there, and songs like Electron Blue, Aftermath, and Make it All Okay have a lot of gentle charms that make them easy, satisfying listens. The problem I have with the album (I still like it--I'd give it a B-) is that a lot of the more classical sounding REM songs don't quite reach the levels of their predecessors.

And Worst Joke Ever may be their worst song. High Speed Train was really boring on the album but I was surprised by how it opened up live.

I like the Outsiders version where Michael Stipe does the rap, but that song did not need that sequence.

[chewm]

High Speed Train is terrible.

[stip]

Up and Reveal are the two that have never really hit me the way most of their other stuff has, for some reason. Even the songs I really like now took me a while to come around on.

I love Lotus, Daysleeper,and Hope. Hope especially. And if there was a clean version of Lotus (like the live versions they played making the late night rounds) it would be an all time favorite. At My Most Beautiful was my wedding song, so I'm obviously attached to that. Parakeet, Walk Unafraid, Sad Professor, and Suspicion are all quite solid. I took another look at falls to climb since KD sang its praises, and I'm inclined to relisten to anything he recommends. I like it.

That's 1- very solid songs. But there's still a lot more space to kill on that record, and most of it is a miss for me. The Apologist is one of the REM songs I like the least (maybe second to Worst Joke Ever), I can appreciate Airportman as a mood piece but dont' want to listen to it. Diminished is too bulky, Why Not Smile needs to be simpler, You're in the Air is a pale remembrance of lushness past. And these songs keep popping up throughout the album so there's a constant momentum killer. I like the high spots on Up more than the high spots on Murmur (the bottom of my REM rankings prior to Up) but this was the first album that was not consistently great from start to finish. Actually Out of Time and Green were also uneven but there's very little that touches the best tracks on those albums.

[Chris_H_2]

I loved Up from the very first listen. I didn't understand why people wouldn't consider it worthy to stand alongside the rest of the 90s output.

partly because the rest of the 90s output is some of best music of the decade.

but I agree with everyone -- up is awesome

[chewm]

Up and Reveal are the two that have never really hit me the way most of their other stuff has, for some reason. Even the songs I really like now took me a while to come around on.

I love Lotus, Daysleeper,and Hope. Hope especially. And if there was a clean version of Lotus (like the live versions they played making the late night rounds) it would be an all time favorite. At My Most Beautiful was my wedding song, so I'm obviously attached to that. Parakeet, Walk Unafraid, Sad Professor, and Suspicion are all quite solid. I took another look at falls to climb since KD sang its praises, and I'm inclined to relisten to anything he recommends. I like it.

That's 1- very solid songs. But there's still a lot more space to kill on that record, and most of it is a miss for me. The Apologist is one of the REM songs I like the least (maybe second to Worst Joke Ever), I can appreciate Airportman as a mood piece but dont' want to listen to it. Diminished is too bulky, Why Not Smile needs to be simpler, You're in the Air is a pale remembrance of lushness past. And these songs keep popping up throughout the album so there's a constant momentum killer. I like the high spots on Up more than the high spots on Murmur (the bottom of my REM rankings prior to Up) but this was the first album that was not consistently great from start to finish. Actually Out of Time and Green were also uneven but there's very little that touches the best tracks on those albums.

I always found Up to be really consistent. Why not smile and Diminished are 2 of my favorites of that album. Diminished particularly deserves a lot more recognition than it gets.
I see nothing wrong with The Apologist, what makes you dislike it so much?
Falls to Climb is gorgeous, my favorite song of the album and probably a top 10 REM song.
Oddly enough, Ive never been such a big fan of Daysleeper.

[Kevin Davis]

And Worst Joke Ever may be their worst song. High Speed Train was really boring on the album but I was surprised by how it opened up live.

I like the Outsiders version where Michael Stipe does the rap, but that song did not need that sequence.

I agree with all of this, and can respect Chris's point that there's not necessarily a satisfying flow to the album. There are a lot of secondary things -- compelling production, meaningful sequencing, a flawless program of material -- that "ATS" fails to deliver. It is not one of REM's great albums. But I have always been baffled by its dismal reputation -- if it's the band's worst album, that is much more a testament to what an incredible discography the band has more than it is a condemnation of the work itself. In the end, it is an album that has 9-10 songs I really like, which is a pretty good score in my book.

[epilogue]

I loved Up from the very first listen. I didn't understand why people wouldn't consider it worthy to stand alongside the rest of the 90s output.

Pete gets it.

[epilogue]

Well, actually, I like Up more than some of the 90s output.

[Norah]

Well, actually, I like Up more than some of the 90s output.

me too

[AndySlash]

Diminished particularly deserves a lot more recognition than it gets.

[stip]

And Worst Joke Ever may be their worst song. High Speed Train was really boring on the album but I was surprised by how it opened up live.

I like the Outsiders version where Michael Stipe does the rap, but that song did not need that sequence.

I agree with all of this, and can respect Chris's point that there's not necessarily a satisfying flow to the album. There are a lot of secondary things -- compelling production, meaningful sequencing, a flawless program of material -- that "ATS" fails to deliver. It is not one of REM's great albums. But I have always been baffled by its dismal reputation -- if it's the band's worst album, that is much more a testament to what an incredible discography the band has more than it is a condemnation of the work itself. In the end, it is an album that has 9-10 songs I really like, which is a pretty good score in my book.

It's a b- or B. It's hurt by the quality of what surrounds it

[VinylGuy]

I have to get in my semi-annual plug for "Around the Sun," an album which it seems no one likes but me. I think the first 2/3 of that album is top-shelf REM -- the criticism of the clinical production isn't unjustified, but songwriting-wise there is very little in my mind to justify its reputation as an "off" album -- the writing feels very locked-in and engaged to me (as Stip says, it wears its moment in time on its sleeve, but I don't know that that lessens the depth of its craft). I remember Peter Buck complaining once that the album took forever to make, and I suppose I can see that -- it feels overworked in places. But in that overwork I also detect a sense of focus not necessarily readily apparent on their other records. I dunno -- it's one of the good ones to me.

Thats a very special album for me. It contains two of my favorite song from them, Make It All Okay and Leaving New York, and it reminds me of a very special moment and person in my life...so, its difficult to actually listen to it without leaving that behind.

Accelerate too.

[philpritchard]

Diminished particularly deserves a lot more recognition than it gets.

Absolutely it does.