Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens (2015)

[southp]

You guys make me nauseous

Unlearn what you have learned.

[@SkitchP]

Is general Hux the guy that plays Gavin Belson?

No.


And to Stip's point about Poe Dameron: Oscar Isaac is somehow extremely likable. At least in the 2 things I know I've seen him in. Show Me A Hero he was likable and you weren't even sure why. A lesser actor would have made that "who is supposed to talk first now?" thing just awful. He's strong enough to pull it off. Just a great casting choice. I just hope as his career continues to explode, he doesn't spend the last movie clearly bored (like Jennifer Lawrence in Hunger Games and X-Men).

A lot of people seem bothered by the "Rey is untrained how is she using the force so well" thing. I actually liked that a lot. One of those "she doesn't know how much she doesn't know" things. She realized she had the ability, and didn't have an Obi-Wan type to train her properly, so she just tried to use it. Being unrestrained just let her use the force. It will be interesting to see if that ends up being a wreckless trait if Luke doesn't train her immediately.

Ive been thinking a lot about Rogue One now. I am actually very curious to see if they factor in any of the Rebels characters into it... It's going to be Pre-BB8 and I would absolutely love to see Chopper.

Maz: I think the Orange-Yoda thing is overblown. I dont think she'll be training anyone. Struck me as more of a collector of interesting things and a source of intelligence. Almost a Guinan type character.

I do hope one of the standalone character focused movies takes place between 6 and 7 to fill in some of the gaps of what happened to turn Ben into Kylo, Luke to disappear, etc.

[dimejinky99]

Thundercunt?

Does RM have an underbelly I'm unaware of?

Respond to my thoughts in the other thread!

I'm looking at em.

[Strat]

Is general Hux the guy that plays Gavin Belson?

No.


And to Stip's point about Poe Dameron: Oscar Isaac is somehow extremely likable. At least in the 2 things I know I've seen him in. Show Me A Hero he was likable and you weren't even sure why. A lesser actor would have made that "who is supposed to talk first now?" thing just awful. He's strong enough to pull it off. Just a great casting choice. I just hope as his career continues to explode, he doesn't spend the last movie clearly bored (like Jennifer Lawrence in Hunger Games and X-Men).

A lot of people seem bothered by the "Rey is untrained how is she using the force so well" thing. I actually liked that a lot. One of those "she doesn't know how much she doesn't know" things. She realized she had the ability, and didn't have an Obi-Wan type to train her properly, so she just tried to use it. Being unrestrained just let her use the force. It will be interesting to see if that ends up being a wreckless trait if Luke doesn't train her immediately.

Ive been thinking a lot about Rogue One now. I am actually very curious to see if they factor in any of the Rebels characters into it... It's going to be Pre-BB8 and I would absolutely love to see Chopper.

Maz: I think the Orange-Yoda thing is overblown. I dont think she'll be training anyone. Struck me as more of a collector of interesting things and a source of intelligence. Almost a Guinan type character.

I do hope one of the standalone character focused movies takes place between 6 and 7 to fill in some of the gaps of what happened to turn Ben into Kylo, Luke to disappear, etc.

Spot on about Maz, skitch.

[southp]

I thought Maz was more of a "master" of smugglers not Jedi. Like she taught Han a thing or two back in the day.

[stip]

The New Hope complaints

There are a lot of similarities, but as I've pointed out in a few places, they are usually inverted. And some of this stuff is really basic to the world of star wars--the basic vocabulary. Light sabers, the mentor (though in this film it wasn't a jedi), the dark lord, the super weapons, shield generators, self-destruct mechanisms, space dog fights. It's paralleling Return of the Jedi as much as it is a New Hope because it's the basic star wars story (with an interlude in Empire to develop some relationships--but you can't start there, and there was WAY more character development in this film than we got in either A New Hope or Jedi). And almost every element of it had a particular twist--the most interesting of which seems to be that we're going to get a villain journey that parallels the hero's journey.


The Jakku critique strikes me as particularly off the mark. First off, every planet in star wars has precisely one environment. And this movie also had the arctic planet, the city planet, and the jungle planet. We were just missing the water planet. So the desert is a 1 in 5 shot anyway. And the desert was important here for a few reasons.

1. This was a particularly desolate place. If you're trying to hide someone you're going to drop them off in the middle of nowhere

2. Because it was a horrible place to live it made Rey's longing for her family more powerful because, unlike Luke, she wanted to go back/didn't want to leave.

Plus they did give this a different feel and culture than Tatooine had. So yes, both movies have our main protagonist starting out on a desert planet. But that's a superficial similarity. The desert planet served the character well.

Otherwise what is there to bitch about. A bearded guy? storm troopers killing people? the millennium falcon helping our heroes escape? (i forget what else you mentioned, Burt). This shit is Star Wars 101. At least this time Storm Troopers actually seemed scary and effective.


The cantina critique seems similarly off the mark. The seedy bar is a pretty standard movie trope, and its a star wars movie--of course they are full of aliens. Again, this strikes me as inches away from complaining about the presence of Tie Fighters and Light sabers. These are the most basic elements of the franchise.

I've got no problem with another story about Skywalkers. This is a universe governed by a mystical energy that manifests itself particularly strongly in one bloodline, and members of this bloodline happen to be people of extreme galactic significance. Seems reasonable that this might follow from one generation to another.

The Starkiller Base run was really more of a Return of the Jedi rather than New Hope call back. Sneaking into the base to deactivate the shield, the larger dogfight while we wait for our heroes to create the opening, the simultaneous light saber battle. But it's well established in Star Wars that these kinds of weapons exist, they make sense as an equalizer this time since the First Order was not well equipped, and it wasn't really a trench run like a new hope. You did have a ship fly into the structure of a base to bring it down, which we've seen before, but there's only so many variations on vehicular base assault you can get. Next time if there's a ground assault are we going to complain that it's too similar to Hoth?

Thinking about it, I agree that this wasn't totally necessary, but it was fun to watch, and it was really just an excuse to set up the personal drama that was the heart of the movie (Han's death, Rey's rescue (which was more about Finn) and the Ren showdowns). We could have had that anyway, but the impending death of the resistance created some time constraints and gave everything a bit more urgency, ensured that both Rey and Ren couldn't finish each other off, gave Poe something cool to do, had a different mechanic than the death stars, and was generally a well executed larger sequence. Familiar, but it should not have been distracting, and if you're gonna get pissed at something, get pissed at Jedi, since it did it first.


The familiar plot beats, when they occur, are ultimatley irrelevant because the plot was always in service of the characters. For such a fast paced set piece oriented movie this was really about the development of the three main new characters, and in that respect managed to merge what was best about empire with the larger stakes and sequences of New Hope/Jedi.

[Strat]

Is general Hux the guy that plays Gavin Belson?

No.


And to Stip's point about Poe Dameron: Oscar Isaac is somehow extremely likable. At least in the 2 things I know I've seen him in. Show Me A Hero he was likable and you weren't even sure why. A lesser actor would have made that "who is supposed to talk first now?" thing just awful. He's strong enough to pull it off. Just a great casting choice. I just hope as his career continues to explode, he doesn't spend the last movie clearly bored (like Jennifer Lawrence in Hunger Games and X-Men).

A lot of people seem bothered by the "Rey is untrained how is she using the force so well" thing. I actually liked that a lot. One of those "she doesn't know how much she doesn't know" things. She realized she had the ability, and didn't have an Obi-Wan type to train her properly, so she just tried to use it. Being unrestrained just let her use the force. It will be interesting to see if that ends up being a wreckless trait if Luke doesn't train her immediately.

Ive been thinking a lot about Rogue One now. I am actually very curious to see if they factor in any of the Rebels characters into it... It's going to be Pre-BB8 and I would absolutely love to see Chopper.

Maz: I think the Orange-Yoda thing is overblown. I dont think she'll be training anyone. Struck me as more of a collector of interesting things and a source of intelligence. Almost a Guinan type character.

I do hope one of the standalone character focused movies takes place between 6 and 7 to fill in some of the gaps of what happened to turn Ben into Kylo, Luke to disappear, etc.

Spot on about Maz, skitch.

Also, i think Kylo's past and Lukes story will be fleshed out more within the next 2 movies.

[Simple Torture]

I did enjoy this movie a lot (despite the fact that I had a mom sitting next to me with her 8-year-old son, and she was "mom laughing" the whole time--which is the term I'm using for the sort of knowing laugh people give whenever there's a callback to an earlier film or property; she's not laughing because it's funny, she's laughing because she's in on the reference, and for some reason that made me fucking furious), and some of the highlights were: the new characters were deftly characterized as soon as they appeared on screen, frequently without dialogue (like Rey), and depth was added to them as the story moved on (Finn is the most interesting to me, since they've set him up as a "blank slate," a character without a backstory to reveal); the film had a kinetic energy that the series hasn't seen since the original trilogy, with actual running, jumping, diving, and collisions in 3D space, not on a green screen (and the stuff that I'm sure was done on green screen was seamlessly added in); the original cast was given the right amount of screentime, with maybe only Ford getting a bit much (but it is his swan song, after all); I liked how Ren's parentage wasn't treated as a "big reveal," how it wasn't aping the Vader/Luke dynamic from Empire--it was almost delivered nonchalantly, as if we should've already known, which is okay; and at the risk of sounding too sentimental, I did see some young kids pretending to lightsaber duel in the lobby after the movie, and that hit me in the feels.

"That's not how the Force works!" was definitely the best one-liner, followed closely by Poe's first line to Ren.

The most emotional moment was when Han yelled out Ren's real name; even his death wasn't as touching.

I did have some minor gripes: as others have said, the Republic/Resistance/First Order dynamic wasn't exactly clear, and I was pretty sure they had blown up Coruscant; what happened to Maz after her castle was blowed up?; it always seems like Star Wars planets are desert/snowy/forest-y/water-y, with very little in between; the only bit of mirroring from Star Wars that bothered me was the "trench run" at the end, because there wasn't much tension ("Oh, yeah, they're gonna blow that thing up") but I think it was overshadowed by how good the lightsaber duel was, which was good.

And I can't help but be a critic (because I am a critic), so here are my two major gripes:

1. I have no problem with this film setting up sequels (What's the extent of damage to Finn? How will Snoke respond? Can Rey lure Luke back from his exile?) because we know it's an epic trilogy and that it's going to do that stuff. But what I'm less keen on is how it's definitely setting up other spin-off franchises, which just feels manufactured. Maz is going to show up in the Han Solo origin film. Max Von Sydow's character is going to show up as a young man in one of the other spin-offs. Stuff like that. This was one of my biggest problems with the prequel trilogy: I don't want the holes filled in for me! I don't want to see the Clone Wars, and I don't want to see Obi Wan and Anakin's time together as young men; Alec Guiness was a good enough actor to show me everything I needed in those day-dream glances telling look the story. We didn't need a Boba Fett origin story, but we got it, and we'll almost definitely get a Captain Phasma story. This dovetails into the idea that this film (The Force Awakens, that is) can't really stand on its own as the beginning to a new trilogy, the way Star Wars can, because it's poking you towards consuming other products, not enjoying the story at hand, which is what Marvel has done so successfully (at least financially), and Disney seems to be aping them here.

2. Growing off of the last point: to echo AA Dowd's review, I can't shake the sense, after the fact, that it almost feels like this film was focus-grouped over the course of ten years to give Star Wars fans exactly what they wanted. You like smaller, more character-driven lightsaber duels? You got it. Outsider characters who slowly grow into their own? Check. Dogfights? We'll give you at least 3. Practical effects are better than CGI? STRAP IN, MOTHERFUCKERS. And there was other stuff. I think most of these were well-executed, and I was on the edge of my seat at times, but once the aura of the theater wore off, I got the nagging suspicion that this is what we were going to get for the rest of the foreseeable future with the Star Wars franchise, namely: safe shit. One thing that will never be recaptured from the original film (and probably the first 2/3 of the OT) was the sense the film was the work of an auteur pouring his heart and soul into a project, pushing envelopes, living right on the edge of failure but succeeding nonetheless. When you look at the lineup of filmmakers that are on deck, you've got a bunch of dudes who have already been told, "You are special" (due to the fact that they've been handed the keys to Uncle George's flashy car and told to be really, really careful with it), and I'm worried they're going to make technically wonderful films that hit most of the important Star Wars beats, but don't do anything incredibly fun or interesting. I want a woman or a person of color to write/direct one of these movies so, so badly to bring a new perspective to the universe.

Anyways, I'm almost sure I'll see this at least one more time before it leaves theaters.

[stip]

I thought Maz was more of a "master" of smugglers not Jedi. Like she taught Han a thing or two back in the day.

I got that, but she seemed like she was ONLY there for exposition. If her character and scenes were removed the story could have progressed, which you can't say about Yoda or Obi Wan

[dimejinky99]

Maz states very clearly : 'I'm not Jedi, but I know the force'

She's a barkeep. Not a Jedi master. As told by Han saying 'Maz has kept this watering hole going for a thousand years'


(Actually, did anyone notice the bit where he goes 'don't stare'? It was almost 'don't stare' like the 'I don't know, fly casual!' Bit in Jedi:)

[@SkitchP]

Here's my view on the Jakku-Tattooine thing. Yes, they look like the same damn place. And the Starkiller Planet looks like Hoth. And the Cantina Planet looks like Endor....


well we wanted REAL things. Not CGI backdrops and settings. They actually filmed here on earth. There is only so much diversity on different types of landscapes you can use. Desert, Forest, Snow... We could have had a CGI Sea like Camino from the prequels, or weird bug people living in a volcano like in Episode 2- but those are not realistically where these people would be living their lives, or setting up their bases.

[Simple Torture]

Here's my view on the Jakku-Tattooine thing. Yes, they look like the same damn place. And the Starkiller Planet looks like Hoth. And the Cantina Planet looks like Endor....


well we wanted REAL things. Not CGI backdrops and settings. They actually filmed here on earth. There is only so much diversity on different types of landscapes you can use. Desert, Forest, Snow... We could have had a CGI Sea like Camino from the prequels, or weird bug people living in a volcano like in Episode 2- but those are not realistically where these people would be living their lives, or setting up their bases.

This is a good point. I think I'd like to see an urban Star Wars film--i.e., one that doesn't take place in a "secret rebel base," but in an actual, living, breathing city (not the cartoon that was Coruscant in the prequels).

[E.H. Ruddock]

Haven't stopped thinking about this movie all day today. I can't wait to see it again.

All of my nephews are getting BB-8 related Christmas gifts. I'm so in love with that little droid.

Before long bb8 will replace minion memes on Facebook

[Strat]

Maz states very clearly : 'I'm not Jedi, but I know the force'

She's a barkeep. Not a Jedi master. As told by Han saying 'Maz has kept this watering hole going for a thousand years'


(Actually, did anyone notice the bit where he goes 'don't stare'? It was almost 'don't stare' like the 'I don't know, fly casual!' Bit in Jedi:)

I think the "Dont stare" thing is because Maz has a special gift of reading peopel secrets through their eyes. Seeing their souls.

[Strat]

Haven't stopped thinking about this movie all day today. I can't wait to see it again.

All of my nephews are getting BB-8 related Christmas gifts. I'm so in love with that little droid.

Before long bb8 will replace minion memes on Facebook

BB8 was phenomenal.

[@SkitchP]

Haven't stopped thinking about this movie all day today. I can't wait to see it again.

All of my nephews are getting BB-8 related Christmas gifts. I'm so in love with that little droid.

Before long bb8 will replace minion memes on Facebook

RIP Star Wars fan Skitch.

[stip]

2. Growing off of the last point: to echo AA Dowd's review, I can't shake the sense, after the fact, that it almost feels like this film was focus-grouped over the course of ten years to give Star Wars fans exactly what they wanted. You like smaller, more character-driven lightsaber duels? You got it. Outsider characters who slowly grow into their own? Check. Dogfights? We'll give you at least 3. Practical effects are better than CGI? STRAP IN, MOTHERFUCKERS. And there was other stuff. I think most of these were well-executed, and I was on the edge of my seat at times, but once the aura of the theater wore off, I got the nagging suspicion that this is what we were going to get for the rest of the foreseeable future with the Star Wars franchise, namely: safe shit. One thing that will never be recaptured from the original film (and probably the first 2/3 of the OT) was the sense the film was the work of an auteur pouring his heart and soul into a project, pushing envelopes, living right on the edge of failure but succeeding nonetheless. When you look at the lineup of filmmakers that are on deck, you've got a bunch of dudes who have already been told, "You are special" (due to the fact that they've been handed the keys to Uncle George's flashy car and told to be really, really careful with it), and I'm worried they're going to make technically wonderful films that hit most of the important Star Wars beats, but don't do anything incredibly fun or interesting. I want a woman or a person of color to write/direct one of these movies so, so badly to bring a new perspective to the universe.

See here's my issue. lightsaber duels, dogfights--this is WHAT star wars is. Without this you don't have star wars. You have some random space story. The movies will always have this. The key is whether or not they are executed well. Likewise the practical effects thing is not a focus group thing--it's the key to the asthetics of the world. These are your boundaries. I don't think you move past them. The key is how effectively can you tell stories within them. Your last person about a minority or female writer/director may be on point, but that's about how you use your tools--it isn't swapping one set for another.

[E.H. Ruddock]

weird bug people living in a volcano like in Episode 2

That was a volcano? Huh.

[Strat]

Also, what is George Lucas sour over? he is always "yea its not a spaceship movie its a family opera"

thats exactly what TFA is....

[E.H. Ruddock]

Haven't stopped thinking about this movie all day today. I can't wait to see it again.

All of my nephews are getting BB-8 related Christmas gifts. I'm so in love with that little droid.

Before long bb8 will replace minion memes on Facebook

RIP Star Wars fan Skitch.

You know I'm right though