Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens (2015)

[Coach]

guys, remember, this is still Star Wars we're talking about, not the Godfather.

God I hate this argument. I like ESB and ROTJ more than The Godfather anyway.

but why do people criticize this movie for not being something that it never was or never intended to be? it's like saying south park's animations suck compared to a Pixar movie. yes there are plot holes. yes the dialogue can be corny. and yes the scenes can be predictable as all get out. but that's star wars.

btw, if you recall, I never saw the godfather

What? How am I expecting it to be something it's not? I just want it to be GOOD. The OT were GOOD MOVIES. This is lazy, pandering garbage.

What part of that Rey dream sequence force forward/backward in light of JJ's explanation of how that went down was lazy or unoriginal?

[EJ]

I was a little disappointed when he took off the helmet so soon in the movie and revealed himself as a goth Jonas brother. Kinda lost some credibility as a baddie from there for me. But, maybe that was the point of his character.

[spike]

Spike, did you happen to see this Thurs night at the ICON on Roosevelt? There was someone there that looked exactly like you (sans the poncho).

no, i saw it yesterday, but at that theater.

[dimejinky99]

He's a legend already

[stip]

The OT not dealing with Vader's reasons for being evil isn't a flaw. Do you guys need every little thing explained? Jeez.

I'm with LV on this. I don't necessarily need every reason why something is the case to be the case. We knew that Vader was good, was seduced, and the only relevant part of his backstory is any lingering goodness that can be teased out by his son (a nice inversion to the Ren/Han sequence). Sometimes you're better off with the mystery.

[Coach]

The OT not dealing with Vader's reasons for being evil isn't a flaw. Do you guys need every little thing explained? Jeez.

I'm with LV on this. I don't necessarily need every reason why something is the case to be the case. We knew that Vader was good, was seduced, and the only relevant part of his backstory is any lingering goodness that can be teased out by his son (a nice inversion to the Ren/Han sequence). Sometimes you're better off with the mystery.

I found it to be lazy on Lucas' part. You could have tossed in a force forward/backward for Vader in the OT. Oh wait, we had to wait 30 years for JJ to invent that.

[stip]

I was a little disappointed when he took off the helmet so soon in the movie and revealed himself as a goth Jonas brother. Kinda lost some credibility as a baddie from there for me. But, maybe that was the point of his character.

I think knowing that he's a human aspiring to be a monster (an inverse of Vader, again) is going to be a pretty important part of his character.


Vader was a fully realized character when we first meet him. We know exactly who he is. The doubts start to creep in at the end of the second film, and even then it's not really until Jedi that he starts to entertain them in any serious sort of way.


One of the things I really like about this new trilogy is that it looks like we're going to have our primary hero and villain both developing at the same time

[stip]

The OT not dealing with Vader's reasons for being evil isn't a flaw. Do you guys need every little thing explained? Jeez.

I'm with LV on this. I don't necessarily need every reason why something is the case to be the case. We knew that Vader was good, was seduced, and the only relevant part of his backstory is any lingering goodness that can be teased out by his son (a nice inversion to the Ren/Han sequence). Sometimes you're better off with the mystery.

I found it to be lazy on Lucas' part. You could have tossed in a force forward/backward for Vader in the OT. Oh wait, we had to wait 30 years for JJ to invent that.

Look I was excited to see a whole trilogy devoted to Anakin's gradual descent into vader. The problem was that it was so hamfistedly done. But if you're going to tell the story it deserves more than a flashback. And since Vader as already who he was there was no need to hint at anything as we got with the artfully done Rey sequence (which I'm really looking forward to seeing again). The flash forward promises future mysteries as we discover who Rey is. It seems less important to discover who Vader was.

[bada]

Yeah the prequels demystified Vader and in a lot of way ruined one of the greatest screen villains ever.

[Coach]

What if the training of Ren doesn't work on the dark side, just like his light side training didn't work. What if he's simply not cut out for this?

[bart]

I want to know what B thinks about the flashback idea.

[LoathedVermin72]

guys, remember, this is still Star Wars we're talking about, not the Godfather.

God I hate this argument. I like ESB and ROTJ more than The Godfather anyway.

but why do people criticize this movie for not being something that it never was or never intended to be? it's like saying south park's animations suck compared to a Pixar movie. yes there are plot holes. yes the dialogue can be corny. and yes the scenes can be predictable as all get out. but that's star wars.

btw, if you recall, I never saw the godfather

What? How am I expecting it to be something it's not? I just want it to be GOOD. The OT were GOOD MOVIES. This is lazy, pandering garbage.

What part of that Rey dream sequence force forward/backward in light of JJ's explanation of how that went down was lazy or unoriginal?

You mean the "Luke's Dagobah Vision 2.0" sequence?

[bada]

I do need more Captain Phasma.

[Coach]

The OT not dealing with Vader's reasons for being evil isn't a flaw. Do you guys need every little thing explained? Jeez.

I'm with LV on this. I don't necessarily need every reason why something is the case to be the case. We knew that Vader was good, was seduced, and the only relevant part of his backstory is any lingering goodness that can be teased out by his son (a nice inversion to the Ren/Han sequence). Sometimes you're better off with the mystery.

I found it to be lazy on Lucas' part. You could have tossed in a force forward/backward for Vader in the OT. Oh wait, we had to wait 30 years for JJ to invent that.

Look I was excited to see a whole trilogy devoted to Anakin's gradual descent into vader. The problem was that it was so hamfistedly done. But if you're going to tell the story it deserves more than a flashback. And since Vader as already who he was there was no need to hint at anything as we got with the artfully done Rey sequence (which I'm really looking forward to seeing again). The flash forward promises future mysteries as we discover who Rey is. It seems less important to discover who Vader was.

Forget about the prequels. The one thing we all agree on is that those were poor.

I'm simply suggesting that much like when they teased the back of Vader's head with helmet off in Empire, something trippy/spooky could have been done in A New Hope that flashed forward and back with Vader. Thus, there's still some ambiguity but some answers.

[bada]

What if the training of Ren doesn't work on the dark side, just like his light side training didn't work. What if he's simply not cut out for this?

I like it.

[Coach]

guys, remember, this is still Star Wars we're talking about, not the Godfather.

God I hate this argument. I like ESB and ROTJ more than The Godfather anyway.

but why do people criticize this movie for not being something that it never was or never intended to be? it's like saying south park's animations suck compared to a Pixar movie. yes there are plot holes. yes the dialogue can be corny. and yes the scenes can be predictable as all get out. but that's star wars.

btw, if you recall, I never saw the godfather

What? How am I expecting it to be something it's not? I just want it to be GOOD. The OT were GOOD MOVIES. This is lazy, pandering garbage.

What part of that Rey dream sequence force forward/backward in light of JJ's explanation of how that went down was lazy or unoriginal?

You mean the "Luke's Dagobah Vision 2.0" sequence?

That's not 2.0. That's a whole new operating system.

[Chris_H_2]

Spike, did you happen to see this Thurs night at the ICON on Roosevelt? There was someone there that looked exactly like you (sans the poncho).

no, i saw it yesterday, but at that theater.

Ah, well, maybe it was a flashback of you from the OT.

[stip]

Yeah the prequels demystified Vader and in a lot of way ruined one of the greatest screen villains ever.

But they COULD have done it well. The idea is fine (though not necessary) but since you're peeling back the curtain on one of the most intriguing villains ever you gotta do it right.

[Strat]

Wow

“You do hear a little bit of Yoda. You hear Luke yelling out, ‘Nooo!’ from that moment in Empire. And you hear Obi-Wan at the end say, ‘Rey … these are your first steps,’” Abrams says. “Here’s the cool part. We asked Ewan McGregor to come in and do the line. And he was awesome and we were very grateful. He was incredibly sweet and handsome, and all that stuff. Then he rode off on his motorcycle. Literally the coolest voice over actor ever.”

As they worked on editing the dream sequence, Bryan Burk, a longtime Bad Robot collaborator and one of the producers of the film, surprised Abrams one day with the gift of a single word: Obi-Wan Kenobi’s voice saying the name “Rey …”

“I said, ‘That’s cool, is that the thing from Ewan McGregor?’” Abrams recalled. “He said ‘No, we took a line from Alec Guinness saying ‘Afraid.’”

Not only that, but the lilt in his voice from that truncated word happened to fit exactly what Abrams had in mind. “They cut it, and you hear the performance – he’s saying it the way I would have begged Alec Guinness to have said it. It is so crazy perfect,” Abrams says. “So when you hear Obi-Wan talk to Rey it is both Alec Guinness and Ewan McGregor doing the voice.”

Frank Oz, a veteran of The Muppets who puppeteered Yoda and supplied his voice in the earlier movies, also contributed new dialogue for The Force Awakens, although Abrams says they ended up using pre-existing elements of the little green Jedi master’s voice.

“He was incredibly generous and came in to Bad Robot, where we had a recording area, and he was doing Yoda, saying a number of lines we gave to him,” Abrams says. “This whole experience has been one outrageous moment after another. Just watching Frank Oz, you look at him and talk to him and his voice is very deep. I don’t know why I would have thought he sounded like Miss Piggy!”

Skitch

This is so great. Man, what an ear I have

[Strat]

Ugh, enough talk about the prequels. Those aren't even star wars in my mind.