LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'm not sure it's fair to say what makes a villain interesting is finding out why they became evil. Vader's struggles with Obi-Wan, his son, and his master in the OT strike me as far more meaningful and nuanced than anything we've seen from Kylo.
The great thing about Vader was they were able to convey menace or, as seen later in ROTJ, empathy without the benefit of facial expressions. This is obviously a credit to good filmmaking decisions but I think otherwise Vader's success as a villain on his own merits is way overblown and completely visual. Rylo Ken actually seems like a despicable dude. There is a quite palpable feel of terrifying asshole to him with a sprinkle of unpredictability. As stip said, they could botch this in the next movie, but based off of what I've seen, he is the best standalone villain this franchise has produced.
LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'm not sure it's fair to say what makes a villain interesting is finding out why they became evil. Vader's struggles with Obi-Wan, his son, and his master in the OT strike me as far more meaningful and nuanced than anything we've seen from Kylo.
The great thing about Vader was they were able to convey menace or, as seen later in ROTJ, empathy without the benefit of facial expressions. This is obviously a credit to good filmmaking decisions but I think otherwise Vader's success as a villain on his own merits is way overblown and completely visual. Rylo Ken actually seems like a despicable dude. There is a quite palpable feel of terrifying asshole to him with a sprinkle of unpredictability. As stip said, they could botch this in the next movie, but based off of what I've seen, he is the best standalone villain this franchise has produced.
Also, Han SOlo is han solo even though he went back to smuggling. That doesnt ruin the character and what he accomplished in the first war. Not one bit. Also, he fucking goes back and helps bring down the new threat because he's han solo. Some of these gripes are lol and McP you haven't even seen the movie.
I don't think it "ruined" his character, I just didn't like it. I think all my gripes are spot on thank you very much LV agrees with me, so, uh, well, I don't know.
Honestly, I wanted to come here after the movie and call LV a lot of bad names, and tell him how wrong he is. Turns out, I kinda agree with him, to an extent.
What bothers you most? That it was a familiar story or poor writing?
Because although I felt it was familiar, i really enjoyed the writing, how it was played out, how the old characters played enough role to really make me get excited about the new ones, and I really thought Ridley and Boyega were fantastic and super excited to see more of Poe
The execution was wonderful, albeit familiar. I think there is more charisma with these new characters.
Mainly that Han's arc in the OT just went "poof" in TFA. Like why did he resort to smuggling and crime again, after being so prominent with the Rebels, then presumably, with the New Republic? To me, it just un-did his arc, and I didn't like it.
It seems like your issue with Han is that they continued with the character. That's totally legit--if you think a story has ended then continuing with it will be troublesome. But I do believe that they did a first rate job coming up with plausible explanations for his actions. Han was always likely to have relationship issues (is a Han Solo without wanderlust who we wanted to see after 30 years) and the stress of what happened with his son seems like a perfectly reasonable trigger to set him off on his own again (with Chewie).
LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'm not sure it's fair to say what makes a villain interesting is finding out why they became evil. Vader's struggles with Obi-Wan, his son, and his master in the OT strike me as far more meaningful and nuanced than anything we've seen from Kylo.
The great thing about Vader was they were able to convey menace or, as seen later in ROTJ, empathy without the benefit of facial expressions. This is obviously a credit to good filmmaking decisions but I think otherwise Vader's success as a villain on his own merits is way overblown and completely visual. Rylo Ken actually seems like a despicable dude. There is a quite palpable feel of terrifying asshole to him with a sprinkle of unpredictability. As stip said, they could botch this in the next movie, but based off of what I've seen, he is the best standalone villain this franchise has produced.
Darth Maul is totes overrated.
Darth Maul's makeup and visual presence is stupid. It looks like a talented 8 year old drew him. His appeal is entirely
1. He had the first 'new lightsaber'
2. He had the first kung fu lightsaber duel before we all realized these are bad ideas'
3. He showed off the new lightsaber in that first kung fu battle to a great song.
LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'm not sure it's fair to say what makes a villain interesting is finding out why they became evil. Vader's struggles with Obi-Wan, his son, and his master in the OT strike me as far more meaningful and nuanced than anything we've seen from Kylo.
The great thing about Vader was they were able to convey menace or, as seen later in ROTJ, empathy without the benefit of facial expressions. This is obviously a credit to good filmmaking decisions but I think otherwise Vader's success as a villain on his own merits is way overblown and completely visual. Rylo Ken actually seems like a despicable dude. There is a quite palpable feel of terrifying asshole to him with a sprinkle of unpredictability. As stip said, they could botch this in the next movie, but based off of what I've seen, he is the best standalone villain this franchise has produced.
So overrated. One-dimensional, roided up puffball.
dimejinky99 wrote:I went back to the only thing I was ever good at.
We both did.
Simple effective crystal clear explanation and I thought it worked perfectly.
he wasn't good at effing up imperial ships?
Plus I've always had this perception of Han that he always owes someone money and is in trouble for it. I don't think you are very good at your job if you consistently can't finish the job.
LV agrees with me, so, uh, well, I don't know. 
