dimejinky99 wrote:LV where do you rate the prequels?
I'd say I generally like Episode I despite the shitty acting. II and III are about 50/50, though I don't outright dislike any of them. Overall, I'd say the prequels are mediocre. I respect most of the vision, I just wish the execution weren't so incompetent.
thats ok..
interesting idea..T2 is basically the same story, but it's still great on its own terms.
Yeah, for the record, I don't think this movie's fundamental problem is that it rips off the OT (which it very lazily and uncreatively does); as someone who doesn't generally care about story, that's almost immaterial. The problem is that I just don't think it's an engaging, insightful, or intelligent movie at all, primarily for aesthetic and thematic reasons.
thats completely fine but that wasn't the mission with this. The goals were to completely wipe the memory and toxicity of the prequels from the minds of the public at large, and reinstall SW as a work of cultural importance. To do that we need to have it all *feel* like SW again by any means necessary, and it's mission accomplished. This episode is just set up and exposition. You know Ep8 will be the real meat of the matter.
and to you point about it not working thematically?
if there is a bigger and more engaging theme about family and ties and deception and failure and love/love lost, all within the umbrella of family, as a theme? i'd love to know what you think that is.
Any "themes" in TFA were superficial (barely specified beyond archetype) and disconnected from any contemporary social awareness. They are there merely to drive the product and make it relatable to the public in the most banal way possible.
The OT wasn't exactly sophisticated intellectually, but at least it was latently political. As Armond White noted, Luke's "symbolic castration" at the hands of his father in ESB had cultural significance (a significance in which TFA is thoroughly uninterested).
'contemporary social awareness'?? the First order are acting like a splinter cell terror group..no contemporary social awareness? no political standpoint?
Again, superficial and obvious to the point of banality.
heres the part you seem to be missing..they have to relaunch SW and try capture TWO audiences..the hearts and minds of we who grew up with it, and the kids of today who probably know nothing about it or hate it cos their dad loves it..
theyve succeeded in spades in binding those two groups and in such a good way that leaves them to carry this on indefinitely!
dimejinky99 wrote:LV where do you rate the prequels?
I'd say I generally like Episode I despite the shitty acting. II and III are about 50/50, though I don't outright dislike any of them. Overall, I'd say the prequels are mediocre. I respect most of the vision, I just wish the execution weren't so incompetent.
thats ok..
interesting idea..T2 is basically the same story, but it's still great on its own terms.
Yeah, for the record, I don't think this movie's fundamental problem is that it rips off the OT (which it very lazily and uncreatively does); as someone who doesn't generally care about story, that's almost immaterial. The problem is that I just don't think it's an engaging, insightful, or intelligent movie at all, primarily for aesthetic and thematic reasons.
thats completely fine but that wasn't the mission with this. The goals were to completely wipe the memory and toxicity of the prequels from the minds of the public at large, and reinstall SW as a work of cultural importance. To do that we need to have it all *feel* like SW again by any means necessary, and it's mission accomplished. This episode is just set up and exposition. You know Ep8 will be the real meat of the matter.
and to you point about it not working thematically?
if there is a bigger and more engaging theme about family and ties and deception and failure and love/love lost, all within the umbrella of family, as a theme? i'd love to know what you think that is.
Any "themes" in TFA were superficial (barely specified beyond archetype) and disconnected from any contemporary social awareness. They are there merely to drive the product and make it relatable to the public in the most banal way possible.
The OT wasn't exactly sophisticated intellectually, but at least it was latently political. As Armond White noted, Luke's "symbolic castration" at the hands of his father in ESB had cultural significance (a significance in which TFA is thoroughly uninterested).
'contemporary social awareness'?? the First order are acting like a splinter cell terror group..no contemporary social awareness? no political standpoint?
Again, superficial and obvious to the point of banality.
heres the part you seem to be missing..they have to relaunch SW and try capture TWO audiences..the hearts and minds of we who grew up with it, and the kids of today who probably know nothing about it or hate it cos their dad loves it..
theyve succeeded in spades in binding those two groups and in such a good way that leaves them to carry this on indefinitely!
i didnt read that piece but im gonna accuse it of hyperactive overthinking SW and how do you explain symbolic castration to a 5 or ten year old? and what will it matter to them?
dimejinky99 wrote:LV where do you rate the prequels?
I'd say I generally like Episode I despite the shitty acting. II and III are about 50/50, though I don't outright dislike any of them. Overall, I'd say the prequels are mediocre. I respect most of the vision, I just wish the execution weren't so incompetent.
thats ok..
interesting idea..T2 is basically the same story, but it's still great on its own terms.
Yeah, for the record, I don't think this movie's fundamental problem is that it rips off the OT (which it very lazily and uncreatively does); as someone who doesn't generally care about story, that's almost immaterial. The problem is that I just don't think it's an engaging, insightful, or intelligent movie at all, primarily for aesthetic and thematic reasons.
thats completely fine but that wasn't the mission with this. The goals were to completely wipe the memory and toxicity of the prequels from the minds of the public at large, and reinstall SW as a work of cultural importance. To do that we need to have it all *feel* like SW again by any means necessary, and it's mission accomplished. This episode is just set up and exposition. You know Ep8 will be the real meat of the matter.
and to you point about it not working thematically?
if there is a bigger and more engaging theme about family and ties and deception and failure and love/love lost, all within the umbrella of family, as a theme? i'd love to know what you think that is.
Any "themes" in TFA were superficial (barely specified beyond archetype) and disconnected from any contemporary social awareness. They are there merely to drive the product and make it relatable to the public in the most banal way possible.
The OT wasn't exactly sophisticated intellectually, but at least it was latently political. As Armond White noted, Luke's "symbolic castration" at the hands of his father in ESB had cultural significance (a significance in which TFA is thoroughly uninterested).
That symbolic castration point was one of the dumbest pieces of pretentious crap I have ever read
why don't you go teach some kids how deep fight club is
Anyone looking for sophisticated political themes in any Star Wars movie is going to be disappointed. Neither the rebellion nor the empire have an ideology.
These are movies, thematically, about self-discovery, friendship, sacrifice, courage, and meaningful personal journeys. But they are mostly the high water mark of escapist entertainment full of entertaining spectacle and extremely likable characters in a universe that, while not especially well realized, has an amazing tacticle presence that makes it immediately inhabitable
And there is a very important place for this in a balanced entertainment diet.
dimejinky99 wrote:LV where do you rate the prequels?
I'd say I generally like Episode I despite the shitty acting. II and III are about 50/50, though I don't outright dislike any of them. Overall, I'd say the prequels are mediocre. I respect most of the vision, I just wish the execution weren't so incompetent.
thats ok..
interesting idea..T2 is basically the same story, but it's still great on its own terms.
Yeah, for the record, I don't think this movie's fundamental problem is that it rips off the OT (which it very lazily and uncreatively does); as someone who doesn't generally care about story, that's almost immaterial. The problem is that I just don't think it's an engaging, insightful, or intelligent movie at all, primarily for aesthetic and thematic reasons.
thats completely fine but that wasn't the mission with this. The goals were to completely wipe the memory and toxicity of the prequels from the minds of the public at large, and reinstall SW as a work of cultural importance. To do that we need to have it all *feel* like SW again by any means necessary, and it's mission accomplished. This episode is just set up and exposition. You know Ep8 will be the real meat of the matter.
and to you point about it not working thematically?
if there is a bigger and more engaging theme about family and ties and deception and failure and love/love lost, all within the umbrella of family, as a theme? i'd love to know what you think that is.
Any "themes" in TFA were superficial (barely specified beyond archetype) and disconnected from any contemporary social awareness. They are there merely to drive the product and make it relatable to the public in the most banal way possible.
The OT wasn't exactly sophisticated intellectually, but at least it was latently political. As Armond White noted, Luke's "symbolic castration" at the hands of his father in ESB had cultural significance (a significance in which TFA is thoroughly uninterested).
That symbolic castration point was one of the dumbest pieces of pretentious crap I have ever read
why don't you go teach some kids how deep fight club is
I pair it with Susan Faludi's Stiffed, one of the smartest books I've ever read. Very difficult to teach, though
I'm interested in specific aesthetic and thematic choices that you didn't like LV. Sorry if you've already posted them and I missed it.
For the record, I think Abrams made some very good aesthetic storytelling choices throughout this movie. Some were subtle, some were heavy-handed, but I think he was quite aware of the audience he was appealing to at all times.
Kaius wrote:I'm interested in specific aesthetic and thematic choices that you didn't like LV. Sorry if you've already posted them and I missed it.
For the record, I think Abrams made some very good aesthetic storytelling choices throughout this movie. Some were subtle, some were heavy-handed, but I think he was quite aware of the audience he was appealing to at all times.
It's a little difficult to list specific examples, because it's a larger problem than specific shot or story choices - it's Abrams's (and Disney's) entire aesthetic and ideological approach, my feelings on which I've laid out in this thread (my responses to dime on the last couple pages indicate what I'm getting at). I could get into how specific beats don't work for me (the red and blue light flashing on Ren's and Rey's faces while they're dueling - how subtle), but that's just reducing the movie and its mentality to character-based moments, which I think is mostly beside the point. It would be like talking about how ugly the paint is on a house with a crumbling foundation.
