Solo: A Star Wars Story (5/25/2018)

[Strat]

Han went from a guy who smuggled cargo for some unsavory characters, then made friends with Luke and fell for his sister. There was no great awakening for Han. Then things went south and he went back to moving cargo as opposed to....what should he have been doing? It seems odd to think a good plot point would feature a domesticated Han spouting the importance of the force and a good government for the people. Unless I missed the part where he was trafficking sex slaves I don't see how bad Han was...then was redeemed...then went horribly wrong again.

You guys are thinking about this in much more literal, plot-based terms than I am. I'm concerned with the subtext of his arc. The thematic significance of his growth, and how it's retroactively altered by TFA.

None of us see nor can rellate to any of your points as to how his character in TFA undermines any of his growth in the OT. It adds to the character. What is actually undermined? I dont think his story arc was that extravagant of redemption. The guy can still be a hero and smuggler with a failed relationship.

[Mecca]

My point is nothing in TFA undermines the character that was and is Han Solo.

And my point is that the starting point of where Solo is in TFA absolutely undermines the message of his arc in the OT. At the end of ROTJ, his arc says, "If you lower your wall of cynicism and let people in, you can find your home/happiness/love." At the end of TFA, his arc now says, "Oh, but then that home will get destroyed and you will be killed by the offspring of your newfound happiness."

so he found a home and let his walls down. He probably spends many happy years with Leia until his progeny, a direct result of his love with Leia, tears down the happiness that he thought he had found, so he regresses. Him and Leia agree they both went back to the only thing they were ever good at because they are dealing with the horribleness of their child being an instrument of what they have always been fighting against. That's a totally believable arc, imo.

Yes. That's what I said happened. Again, my problem has nothing to do with whether or not any of this is "believable."

your problem is that it shits all over his growth from the OT?

Right. It undermines the subtext of his arc.

as a kid, did you always keep your toys in the original packing?

[LoathedVermin72]

Han went from a guy who smuggled cargo for some unsavory characters, then made friends with Luke and fell for his sister. There was no great awakening for Han. Then things went south and he went back to moving cargo as opposed to....what should he have been doing? It seems odd to think a good plot point would feature a domesticated Han spouting the importance of the force and a good government for the people. Unless I missed the part where he was trafficking sex slaves I don't see how bad Han was...then was redeemed...then went horribly wrong again.

You guys are thinking about this in much more literal, plot-based terms than I am. I'm concerned with the subtext of his arc. The thematic significance of his growth, and how it's retroactively altered by TFA.

None of us see nor can rellate to any of your points as to how his character in TFA undermines any of his growth in the OT. It adds to the character. What is actually undermined? I dont think his story arc was that extravagant of redemption. The guy can still be a hero and smuggler with a failed relationship.

Strat, I already explained this. Like three times. And his arc isn't about "redemption."

[Mecca]

Han went from a guy who smuggled cargo for some unsavory characters, then made friends with Luke and fell for his sister. There was no great awakening for Han. Then things went south and he went back to moving cargo as opposed to....what should he have been doing? It seems odd to think a good plot point would feature a domesticated Han spouting the importance of the force and a good government for the people. Unless I missed the part where he was trafficking sex slaves I don't see how bad Han was...then was redeemed...then went horribly wrong again.

You guys are thinking about this in much more literal, plot-based terms than I am. I'm concerned with the subtext of his arc. The thematic significance of his growth, and how it's retroactively altered by TFA.

I'd argue that a prevailing theme in the Star Wars Universe as we know is that things are cyclical. Han cycling back to a version of himself that is similar to an old self only plays into that theme.

[BurtReynolds]

McP and LV are right about this, you morons.

[stip]

Geezes christ. He is still a hero. He's all those things. I dont get how you can say he completely through away all of his growth? he ended up, once again, being a fucking hero.

His growth wasn't just becoming a hero. His growth was becoming less of a cynic, and, finally, finding a home.

And then his home was destroyed and he spends the end of his arc trying to help his son and his mentee return to and find their own homes. I think that wraps things up beautifully.

Yeah, except apparently his relationship with Leia was worthless. And he had no problem just putzing around the galaxy with Chewie for God-knows-how-long before this movie.

Ugh.

It clearly wasn't worthless. It cracked under an impossible strain that neither character was psychologically able to deal with (nor did anything in the OT indicate that they would be).

[Mecca]

McP and LV are right about this, you morons.

they aren't wrong, but they ain't right, burt

[bada]

If you are saying Jedi should have been the end of Star Wars and any continuation ruined the fairy tale then that's fine but if you are going to continue with those characters where should Han be thematically?

[Strat]

I fucking hate myself for spending this much time on something so dumb.

[Mecca]

If you are saying Jedi should have been the end of Star Wars and any continuation ruined the fairy tale then that's fine but if you are going to continue with those characters where should Han be thematically?

sitting at home, being less cynical and musing about his glory days

[Strat]

[LoathedVermin72]

If you are saying Jedi should have been the end of Star Wars and any continuation ruined the fairy tale then that's fine but if you are going to continue with those characters where should Han be thematically?

I don't know where they "should be" because I don't think it needed to go on. The characters and their arcs reached their conclusion. I don't need "more."

[Mecca]

can we just all agree that this will be shit without River Phoenix portraying a young Harrison Ford?

[BurtReynolds]

JJ Abrams wanted to remake A New Hope, and to do that he needed Han Solo to be the Han Solo in that movie, so he threw away any character growth and simply reverted him to a smuggler, because JJ Abrams is a hack. Stop pretending that this is "all part of his arc" or that it is in keeping with the theme of Star Wars (it isn't). Stop defending it. You have no standing. These are soap operas for children.

I'm having a bad day.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I fucking hate myself for spending this much time on something so dumb.

fwiw, I would have probably just flown around the galaxy with my best pal looking to score (on multiple fronts). I just took down Darth Vader and the Empire.

[LoathedVermin72]

The fact that you guys find it so hard to believe that Han could actually, genuinely be happily in love and not want to keep smuggling for criminals probably exposes the fundamental clash in how we're viewing this.

[Mecca]

The fact that you guys find it so hard to believe that Han could actually, genuinely be happily in love and not want to keep smuggling for criminals probably exposes the fundamental clash in how we're viewing this.

I absolutely believe that.

[Strat]

The fact that you guys find it so hard to believe that Han could actually, genuinely be happily in love and not want to keep smuggling for criminals probably exposes the fundamental clash in how we're viewing this.

Nah. We do believe he could be. We do believe he was. And we do believe, and find it totally plausible and okay that things changed.

[Mecca]

so LV has just been fighting a strawman this whole time?

[E.H. Ruddock]

The fact that you guys find it so hard to believe that Han could actually, genuinely be happily in love and not want to keep smuggling for criminals probably exposes the fundamental clash in how we're viewing this.

I absolutely believe that.

hearts and thoughts they fade