Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens (2015)

[McParadigm]

They used some similar plot devices, not really any plot lines, but it needs that connection..how else would they have framed the story in a way that would get everyone on board?

If you think mimickry was a reasonable way to engage the audience, then that's an understandable opinion to have. I personally disagree, but it's understandable.

If you believe that it was the only possible way to do so, then that's just tragically small thinking.

[stip]

now being a few months after the release and all the initial hype, the rehashing of the old plot lines is bothering me a little more.

i'm curious to see how i'll feel about it after seeing it again, which probably won't be until april at this point.

granted it didn't bother me much the first time, but it stood out less and less each time I saw it, as the story simply became its own entity, and I was more interested in following it on its own terms.

[stip]

They used some similar plot devices, not really any plot lines, but it needs that connection..how else would they have framed the story in a way that would get everyone on board?

If you think mimickry was a reasonable way to engage the audience, then that's an understandable opinion to have. I personally disagree, but it's understandable.

If you believe that it was the only possible way to do so, then that's just tragically small thinking.

I still think it was the best choice to make under the circumstances (and it's hard to argue with the results). But a decision like this works best if you use the opportunity this bought to start going in a different direction. If Episode VIII is also very similar to what we've already seen it'll start to wear thin a lot more quickly.

[epilogue]

I still just don't see the "mimickry" as others see it. But whatever.

[McParadigm]

I still just don't see the "mimickry" as others see it. But whatever.

So you feel that "droid with secrets lands on desert planet / droid meets disatisfied youth on desert planet / they escape desert planet in Millenium Falcon, are sought by black-dressed figure / old man shepherds them along, is killed by black-dressed dude right in front of them / they go on to blow up a planetary weapon in a manner involving a trench (I think?)" is novel and new, ok.

For the rest of us...

I realize that mimicking is not inherently a bad idea. It can certainly still produce a quality movie. It's not something I am personally interested in at all, obviously, but I only wrinkle my nose up when someone tries to say "it HAD to happen that way." Which I also realize, in this case, is just dime being dime.

[dimejinky99]

I wasnt suggesting it had to happen that way mcP..i certainly am happy they went that way..even following your logic, if they did reuse the same format, they did an amazing job of reusing those devices and making it feel new and exciting and enticing to us all again.

You've seen it at this point, right? ( or is this just McP, being McP?)

[LoathedVermin72]

I wasnt suggesting it had to happen that way mcP..i certainly am happy they went that way..even following your logic, if they did reuse the same format, they did an amazing job of reusing those devices and making it feel new and exciting and enticing to us all again.

You've seen it at this point, right?

NOT TO US ALL

[dimejinky99]

I wasnt suggesting it had to happen that way mcP..i certainly am happy they went that way..even following your logic, if they did reuse the same format, they did an amazing job of reusing those devices and making it feel new and exciting and enticing to us all again.

You've seen it at this point, right?

NOT TO US ALL

LV..you poor thing...

[LoathedVermin72]

[dimejinky99]

that teddy is all yours LV..go grab him and give him a big hug and feel some love..

ah gwan..

[epilogue]

I never said -- AND DO NOT FEEL -- it was novel and new. It obviously isn't/wasn't. For the rest of you who are listening to people and not talking down to folks...

It just doesn't bother me the way it bothers others. It's "mimickry" in the same way Jedi is "mimickry." I don't agree that it had to happen this way. It didn't. But I think people are blowing this "mimic" thing out of proportion. Star Wars: A New Hope is guilty of this, if we're gonna go there. And I don't think we should. Everything borrows.

The universe is built on repetition and cycles, just like ours. Is it 'mimickry' that the last time the Chiefs won a playoff game prior to this year it was against a team from Houston?

The droids keeping secret plans thing isn't mimickry or lazy. It's how information is carried and kept in that world. Is every movie set in the modern world where secret info is kept on a flashdrive or a disc a ripoff? Or mimicking something else? That's fucking stupid. Droids with secrets is consistency and makes sense in the established world.

Black-dressed figure as a bad guy? Well, he's obsessed with the last black-dressed bad guy. He's trying to emulate him. I was obsessed with Kurt Cobain. I wore long hair, and cardigans and flannel and ripped jeans in an effort to emulate my hero (cue McP making fun of me and insulting my personal choices; it's okay, I'm used to it by now). It's not mimickry, again, it's reflecting issues and themes and ideas that are universal and tapped into what we understand. It's reflective and effectively so. It's a fucking plot point. Let me know if you agree once you've actually, you know, watched the movie.

At least you realize it's only dime making this argument. It seems you have at least a minimum level of reading comprehension. I won't give up on you entirely. You obviously have the ability. Okay. Fucking use it. Okay.

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Have you seen the movie yet, McP? If so, apologies. I haven't kept up with this thread. There's a Pearl Jam tournament happening!

[Rangi Guy]

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Ummmmm - what?

[epilogue]

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Ummmmm - what?

It's not a trench run like we see in Hope or Jedi. There's certainly a callback to it, sure, but it's not the same thing. It's less mimickry in Force than it is in Jedi. So if we're going to criticize one...

[LoathedVermin72]

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Ummmmm - what?

Yeah, I don't know why people keep saying this?

[epilogue]

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Ummmmm - what?

Yeah, I don't know why people keep saying this?

I JUST EXPLAINED IT TO YOU

[Rangi Guy]

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Ummmmm - what?

It's not a trench run like we see in Hope or Jedi. There's certainly a callback to it, sure, but it's not the same thing. It's less mimickry in Force than it is in Jedi. So if we're going to criticize one...

Wasn't criticising one or the other - I loved both films, but there damn sure was a trench run

[dimejinky99]

What argument am i making?
I'm just laughing cos he's criticising a film he hasn't seen and it's funny he's being give oxegen all these months somehow.

Be like someone going into the Radiohead thread and ripping the shit out of them in some faux constructive criticism manner, and not having heard their work since kid A

[dimejinky99]

It's not a trench FYI..it's a service entrance.

[epilogue]

AND THERE ISN'T A GODDAMN TRENCH WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE MCP

Ummmmm - what?

It's not a trench run like we see in Hope or Jedi. There's certainly a callback to it, sure, but it's not the same thing. It's less mimickry in Force than it is in Jedi. So if we're going to criticize one...

Wasn't criticising one or the other - I loved both films, but there damn sure was a trench run

Sure. Yes. In the context of these discussions, people have been using this over and over as an example of lazy,ripoff writing. Which I disagree with. Yes there is a moment when an X-Wing runs down an indention in the framework. Wanna call that a trench? Fine. It's a trench. But I don't want to use that word because by doing so, the nay-sayers have created a vocabulary whereby calling it a trench is akin to calling it a ripoff. That's what I take issue with.

Is any car chase you've ever seen a ripoff of any other after the first? Of course not. That's all I'm saying. I'm trying to break down the syntax and intention behind the argument/word.

[Strat]

i wish i had this on dvd right now so i could crank it up at home tonight and eat pizza.