Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Norah]

The crazy thing is I know at least 2 of you aren't virgins.

Stip could've had his child through in vitro fertilization

maybe the force just impregnated my wife on two non-consecutive occasions

Are you saying your wife had another child between having your two children?

[epilogue]

That goddamn Death Star planning scene... it still cracks me up.

Asshat: They gotta a new death star.
Han: so?
Poe: Well, uh this one is really big.
Han: They always put some ridiculous weak point that makes the whole thing explode, right?
Asshat: Uh... well... yes they actually did and we have the instructions right here...
Han: haha you can't be serious. I was joking. Are we seriously about to do this again?
Poe: you know what? fuck this shit. This is some lazy goddamn writing. I quit.
Harrison Ford: I can't believe I'm getting paid for this shit.

end scene.

I get why they did this, and I can defend it from a certain vantage point, but you're on much stronger ground here then the Rey silliness.

Yerp

[Mecca]

I'm actually curious as to who the 2nd person Jorge is thinking of and what proof he has

[Jorge]

The crazy thing is I know at least 2 of you aren't virgins.

Stip could've had his child through in vitro fertilization

maybe the force just impregnated my wife on two non-consecutive occasions

Are you saying your wife had another child between having your two children?

Yeah Stip uh

what's the story here

[LoathedVermin72]

[epilogue]

What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.

It is a problem.

No, it isn't. Or, if it is, your problem is with the way what it means to be a jedi has been altered in the last twenty five years.


I also assume both you and Burt are quick to level this critique at, say, Tony Stark or Batman.

The difference between OT Jedi and Prequel Jedi is that prequel Jedi were all trained from a young age.

And they all do a lot more than Rey does. The only active force power she uses beyond intuition is the jedi mind trick.

Which I would argue she should've failed at.

This is all moot if we find out Luke trained her at least a little bit as a child

[BurtReynolds]

Tony Stark has the same problem, for what its worth. He's overpowered in the movies.

[LoathedVermin72]

[Mecca]

Tony Stark has the same problem, for what its worth. He's overpowered in the movies.

Yeah, but he's cool as shit. If anything he's the best Mary Sue

[BurtReynolds]

What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.

It is a problem.

No, it isn't. Or, if it is, your problem is with the way what it means to be a jedi has been altered in the last twenty five years.


I also assume both you and Burt are quick to level this critique at, say, Tony Stark or Batman.

The difference between OT Jedi and Prequel Jedi is that prequel Jedi were all trained from a young age.

And they all do a lot more than Rey does. The only active force power she uses beyond intuition is the jedi mind trick.

Which I would argue she should've failed at.

This is all moot if we find out Luke trained her at least a little bit as a child

It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

[stip]

Watching the film, most of Rey's successes didn't feel easy (in hindsight sure, or with the knowledge that the character is going to succeed because she's a main character). Her first encounter with Ren, for instance, just had her running, and it was pretty intimidating.

And the jedi stuff goes beyond the prequels (in the cartoons, comics, everything). Jedi are just significantly more powerful now--to the point that the whole idea behind the movie is that one single Jedi (Luke) could theoretically alter the balance of the war (and Snoke seemed more concerned with discovering another potential powerful jedi than he did with the loss of another death star).

Don't ever quote comics or cartoons at me again.

That's not a question of lazy writing. It's something foundational built into the fabric of the universe. Jedi are not the special forces they were in the OT. They had gradually turned into super heroes. Right now each side has two (Rey/Luke v Ren/Snoke), with the rest of the conflict shaping up around those two sides.

again, not an acceptable excuse.

If Rey was suddenly running rampant through the world of Fury Road I would agree with you. But people who are strong in the force are essentially in a class by themselves. that's why the force awakens was never really about whether or not Rey was in any danger.

They are not in a class by themselves in the OT.

When Disney made the decision to stick with the prequels as cannon (and the clone wars cartoons, and rebels, and all the crap that's not part of the OT) they set the ground rules for how that world (and the world building that makes it up) is going to work. The OT presentation of what Jedi can do is no longer controlling. I agree that I preferred that more under powered version, but it's not bad writing on the part of Lawrence Kasden. That's just the way things are now. It's not like that's something you can just conveniently talk around or not bring up again (like midichlorians)

[stip]

The crazy thing is I know at least 2 of you aren't virgins.

Stip could've had his child through in vitro fertilization

maybe the force just impregnated my wife on two non-consecutive occasions

Are you saying your wife had another child between having your two children?

Yeah Stip uh

what's the story here

well she travels a lot for work. I can't keep track of what she's up to.

[Mecca]

The crazy thing is I know at least 2 of you aren't virgins.

Stip could've had his child through in vitro fertilization

maybe the force just impregnated my wife on two non-consecutive occasions

Are you saying your wife had another child between having your two children?

Yeah Stip uh

what's the story here

well she travels a lot for work. I can't keep track of what she's up to.

It's okay, you obviously were weakened from a wookie's crosbow blaster when you made your comment

[stip]

What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.

It is a problem.

No, it isn't. Or, if it is, your problem is with the way what it means to be a jedi has been altered in the last twenty five years.


I also assume both you and Burt are quick to level this critique at, say, Tony Stark or Batman.

The difference between OT Jedi and Prequel Jedi is that prequel Jedi were all trained from a young age.

And they all do a lot more than Rey does. The only active force power she uses beyond intuition is the jedi mind trick.

Which I would argue she should've failed at.

This is all moot if we find out Luke trained her at least a little bit as a child

It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

She is tested. She just wins the challenge at the end of act one. It's not like Luke misses the shot on the Death Star at the end of a New Hope.

[stip]

Can we all just agree that Smaug could take Rey and Ren at the same time?

[LoathedVermin72]

Can we all just agree that Smaug could take Rey and Ren at the same time?

Like, sexually?

[stip]

Can we all just agree that Smaug could take Rey and Ren at the same time?

Like, sexually?

Obviously

[epilogue]

What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.

It is a problem.

No, it isn't. Or, if it is, your problem is with the way what it means to be a jedi has been altered in the last twenty five years.


I also assume both you and Burt are quick to level this critique at, say, Tony Stark or Batman.

The difference between OT Jedi and Prequel Jedi is that prequel Jedi were all trained from a young age.

And they all do a lot more than Rey does. The only active force power she uses beyond intuition is the jedi mind trick.

Which I would argue she should've failed at.

This is all moot if we find out Luke trained her at least a little bit as a child

It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

Which obviously explains why everyone was so bored watching her.

Jesus, this argument... I can't... seriously, guys. Confounding.

[BurtReynolds]

I bet Finn could beat up Smaug. That's the one thing in the universe he could defeat.

[LoathedVermin72]

smaug was defeated by a bunch of fucking midgets and some dude with a big sharp stick