durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be angry. But he handled the situation poorly. He behaved like an asshole. He refused to listen to Hannah and then blew the fuck up. He was hardly the wounded hero of the scene.
she texted him from the bathroom and ran away instead of talking like an adult and called her out on that. I think he was just done with her after that and maybe it was his own fault for wanting to go on an RV trip when the last episode we saw them they almost broke up.
I dunno, someone hurts/upsets you like that, it can cause some vitriolic words
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Last edited by tragabigzanda on Sun January 11, 2026 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
durdencommatyler wrote:I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be angry. But he handled the situation poorly. He behaved like an asshole. He refused to listen to Hannah and then blew the fuck up. He was hardly the wounded hero of the scene.
she texted him from the bathroom and ran away instead of talking like an adult and called her out on that. I think he was just done with her after that and maybe it was his own fault for wanting to go on an RV trip when the last episode we saw them they almost broke up.
I dunno, someone hurts/upsets you like that, it can cause some vitriolic words
Yep. It sure can. And it's inappropriate. The Hannah behaved was inappropriate. Both of them were wrong. Both of them were assholes. The only difference is Hannah has behaved like this before in front of Fran, so he had to have so reasonable level of expectation. Meanwhile, Fran has always hidden behind this "nice guy" mask still exhibiting some questionable behavior. They shouldn't have been together, were never a good fit at any stage. And he took that shit right out on here. He failed, he lost control when he should have known that he couldn't control and change her. He didn't listen to her needs or wants. Beyond the hurt, there were a million better ways to handle that situation. It was realistic but it was inappropriate, too.
Fran was being an asshole? what?? When? The girl runs to the bathroom and text him and then continues to run, and after that he still tell her that they can go back to the city and still she doesnt want to? When a few moments before, everything seemed fine..
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Last edited by tragabigzanda on Sun January 11, 2026 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i still don't think Fran was the fake nice guy trope. Yeah, he was fairly milquetoast and had some expectations that weren't met by her (she demeaned other teachers to the students, taught outside the wishes of the administration, flashed her vagina to her boss) of what people should and shouldn't do. Yes, they were wrong for each other and it kinda blew up in both of their faces. I don't think any of that means he wasn't well-intentioned.
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Last edited by tragabigzanda on Sun January 11, 2026 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
VinylGuy wrote:Fran was being an asshole? what?? When? The girl runs to the bathroom and text him and then continues to run, and after that he still tell her that they can go back to the city and still she doesnt want to? When a few moments before, everything seemed fine..
He was being an asshole?
Just reverse the situation and imagine you're Hannah. She asked him not to come after her. He did anyway. She asked to be left alone. He chased her. She told him she didn't want to be with him and he hounded her. He then lashed out when he didn't get his way. You can sympathize with him because you're a guy and you chose to see the reasonable side of what Fran was doing and because you'll likely never be in a situation where a girl coming after you like that will threatening in the same way.
But yeah, I think a man going after a woman like that, refusing to listen to her and respect he wants/privacy. That's aggressive and shitty. The episode gave it a comedic twist, of course. And I don't think the writer/director wanted to have a seen about male/female violence and all of that. It was supposed to be a scene about two people who are dead wrong for each other behaving inappropriately and selfishly and watching that come to a comedic head. I get that. But that layer is there.
And it's especially clear in how mean his final words are to her. The fuck yous and the look in his eye. It's dark, man. I was uncomfortable watching it. And I think it was unnecessary on Fran's part.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Last edited by tragabigzanda on Sun January 11, 2026 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Last edited by tragabigzanda on Sun January 11, 2026 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
tragabigzanda wrote:I waited on Affleck and Garner once. She struck me as kind and polite; he struck me as the exact opposite.
I've never met either of them. But I have a few friends who have met Affleck. Not a single one of them has a nice thing to say about the guy. One of my friends actually watched him get super coked up in a club bathroom and then beat the shit out of a bartender. This was a long LONG time ago. Like, maybe before he and Garner were married.
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, Lena Dunham agrees with me, so....
well she wrote it, i just think she missed the mark on the fake nice guy trope. Gus in the netflix show Love is a better example of it.
I haven't seen that show so I can't say. But I will agree that I do think they weren't as clear as they could have been in painting Fran. But I think if we go back and look at the text, the words Lena and the other writers put down, it's clearer on paper. I think the miss lies in Jake. He did a great job of not telegraphing or playing the trope, for sure. But his super nice-guy-ness I think got in the way a bit.
Either way, I won't disagree that it could have been clearer/stronger if that's what the show wanted.
