HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)

[@SkitchP]

"We need to avenge Oberyn who was killed in a voluntary trial by combat! Let's go to war for that!"
"Let's kill his brother and nephew! He surely would have liked that! Oberyn loved kinslaying!"
"Are we as bad as the people we want to kill now? Nah, surely not! Those people raped and murdered Elia and her children!"
"The people responsible for that are all dead? Doesn't matter! Let's teleport on the ship with Tristan and murder him!"

How did they teleport? Those two weren't there for the assassination.

[Mike]

Weren't they on the shore when the boat left last season? Or did Tristan and Myrcella/Jaime take different boats?

[Mike]

[Zantac Junkie]

They've fucked up everything about Dorne. Doran, Trystane, the Sandsnakes, everything.

They certainly have, but the entire storyline was irredeemable without a major shakeup. Since they already eliminated everything good about Doran and the Martells from the books (Arienne, Quentyn, "Fire and Blood", etc), show Doran was beyond repair. So I'm willing to give this a chance to see if it improves the Dornish storyline at all. It certainly can't get any worse.

[Simple Torture]

I just watched the first episode of "After the Thrones," and I think it's worth a watch. The opening bits were sort of choppy--I have been listening to the podcast version of Ryan and Greenwald's convos for a few years, and I feel like their back-and-forth here was a bit more stilted, not as funny, and that their schtick didn't translate to video (perhaps it's just easier to edit audio to have a better pace--chud?). However, the second half, where they brought on a couple of experts to connect what happened in "The Red Woman" to the series' overarching mythology and history, was very good. Skip to like the 12-minute mark if you want to just watch that. A couple of takeaways:

1. Jason Concepcion seems to believe that Melisandre's "glamour" necklace amplifies her powers and isn't the source of her powers, which could help explain why we've seen her not wearing it before. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the books, so I give this a lot of credence.

2. Mallory Rubin (the other "expert") made some good points that connected Sansa's and perhaps Arya's importance to their aunt Lyanna's--that is, she played a pivotal role in Robert's Rebellion (being the cause of it, basically), and as Sansa continues to gain agency and followers, she could represent the next generation of Stark women who will help restore the realm to some sort of balance. This perspective might also help explain (spoilers based on speculation, casting news, leaked set footage, trailers, theories, etc...)

Spoiler: show

why it looks like we'll be getting a flashback to the Tower of Joy this season. Everyone's just sort of assumed it's to reveal Jon Snow's parentage, and while that's probably a big part of it, it could also confirm the theory that Lyanna willingly went with Rhaegar and broke her promise to Robert, elevating her from a victim to someone who makes choices for herself in a male-dominated world, mirroring Sansa's eventual rise from victim to leader of the North. Make sense?

3. The more they talked about him, the more I got worried for the Onion Knight. Davos may not have been conceived as a fan-favorite, but he's definitely risen to that level, and once your neck starts to stick out on GoT, well...I guess my hope is that Zombie Jon will need a trusted advisor, and Edd isn't going to cut it.

4. During the show's conversation, I think it was Concepcion who pointed out that the resurrections carried out by Thoros of Myr began almost by accident on the show (spoilers ahead for the books, but of events that have already passed)

Spoiler: show

[and, of course, in the books it's made much clearer that the first resurrection was completely accidental]

. Everyone has sort of assumed that Melisandre knows how to bring Jon back to life and that it will happen soon--but her moments of quiet at the end of the episode may be her reflecting on the fact that she knows what she wants to do but isn't sure she can do it.

[Monkey_Driven]

I just watched the first episode of "After the Thrones," and I think it's worth a watch. The opening bits were sort of choppy--I have been listening to the podcast version of Ryan and Greenwald's convos for a few years, and I feel like their back-and-forth here was a bit more stilted, not as funny, and that their schtick didn't translate to video (perhaps it's just easier to edit audio to have a better pace--chud?). However, the second half, where they brought on a couple of experts to connect what happened in "The Red Woman" to the series' overarching mythology and history, was very good. Skip to like the 12-minute mark if you want to just watch that. A couple of takeaways:

1. Jason Concepcion seems to believe that Melisandre's "glamour" necklace amplifies her powers and isn't the source of her powers, which could help explain why we've seen her not wearing it before. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of the books, so I give this a lot of credence.

2. Mallory Rubin (the other "expert") made some good points that connected Sansa's and perhaps Arya's importance to their aunt Lyanna's--that is, she played a pivotal role in Robert's Rebellion (being the cause of it, basically), and as Sansa continues to gain agency and followers, she could represent the next generation of Stark women who will help restore the realm to some sort of balance. This perspective might also help explain (spoilers based on speculation, casting news, leaked set footage, trailers, theories, etc...)

Spoiler: show

why it looks like we'll be getting a flashback to the Tower of Joy this season. Everyone's just sort of assumed it's to reveal Jon Snow's parentage, and while that's probably a big part of it, it could also confirm the theory that Lyanna willingly went with Rhaegar and broke her promise to Robert, elevating her from a victim to someone who makes choices for herself in a male-dominated world, mirroring Sansa's eventual rise from victim to leader of the North. Make sense?

3. The more they talked about him, the more I got worried for the Onion Knight. Davos may not have been conceived as a fan-favorite, but he's definitely risen to that level, and once your neck starts to stick out on GoT, well...I guess my hope is that Zombie Jon will need a trusted advisor, and Edd isn't going to cut it.

4. During the show's conversation, I think it was Concepcion who pointed out that the resurrections carried out by Thoros of Myr began almost by accident on the show (spoilers ahead for the books, but of events that have already passed)

Spoiler: show

[and, of course, in the books it's made much clearer that the first resurrection was completely accidental]

. Everyone has sort of assumed that Melisandre knows how to bring Jon back to life and that it will happen soon--but her moments of quiet at the end of the episode may be her reflecting on the fact that she knows what she wants to do but isn't sure she can do it.

I can't wait to go home and watch After the Thrones. I've listened to Greenwald and Ryan's TV/pop culture podcasts for years. I enjoy their chemistry and takes on a lot of TVs hows. Their GOT pods were always good too.

[patrick]

Everyone has sort of assumed that Melisandre knows how to bring Jon back to life and that it will happen soon--but her moments of quiet at the end of the episode may be her reflecting on the fact that she knows what she wants to do but isn't sure she can do it.

There are several ways to interpret the scene: Crisis of faith, whether in herself and her abilities or the Lord of Light's; she's bummed out, reeling from multiple losses; there's some ritual when she changes (whether it's the necklace or something else) and constantly keeping up appearances takes energy and we're just now seeing it.

I think what's interesting about seeing her as she really is, is she may know who really deserves to be king, if she's truly old as the makeup implied, in that she knows a whole lot of history of Westeros.

I too have enjoyed Greenwald and Ryan's takes so I'll check this out this evening.

[Norah]

Yes, audio would be much easier to edit for pacing because you can edit without wearing about what it looks like.

[Chris_H_2]

i too have been listening to those guys' popcast for years and reading concepcion's "ask the maester," and I thought after the thrones was pretty well done considering the medium. to be sure, their stuff translates better when given 50 minutes through an audio-only podcast. but I thought they did a good job. their reoccurring segments have some potential.

I still want someone to explain how sansa and theon jumped 50 feet without a scratch. granted, it was probably snow, but I wish we would've seen that in the episode.

[lowlight79]

Dorne while in the books was cool, was MAJOR disappointment in the show. I'm all for shaking it up to, because Dorne and it's characters kinda sucked.

[Simple Torture]

I still want someone to explain how sansa and theon jumped 50 feet without a scratch. granted, it was probably snow, but I wish we would've seen that in the episode.

The snow as described in the book is like 20-30 feet deep, and obviously there are constraints as to what will look believable on the show. But I think in a vacuum we're supposed to believe it's a cliffhanger--but, of course, when Sophie Turner does the talk-show circuit, it's not like there's any tension about whether they'd survive.

[Simple Torture]

Dorne while in the books was cool, was MAJOR disappointment in the show.

HOT TAKE

[lowlight79]

Dorne while in the books was cool, was MAJOR disappointment in the show.

HOT TAKE

yeah, I'm pretty sure it hadn't been mentioned before, just wanted to make it clear.

[Simple Torture]

Dorne while in the books was cool, was MAJOR disappointment in the show.

HOT TAKE

yeah, I'm pretty sure it hadn't been mentioned before, just wanted to make it clear.

[Simple Torture]

Also, for those who are into the former Grantland guys: be sure to sign up for The Ringer's newsletter, as Ask the Maester will be appearing in it tomorrow.

[Simple Torture]

The Nerdette Recaps Game of Thrones with Peter Sagal is also back, and I highly recommend it (thanks to chud for the original rec!). Be aware that they sometimes jump into book spoilers with little or no warning, but, then again, there aren't many book things left to spoil.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[zeb]

Solid episodes. It will be interesting to see where the Dothraki stuff goes.

[Simple Torture]

Also, I think Ramsey is eventually just going to kill Roose.

This is an interesting idea I can get behind; he's just sticking it to him too much with the, "Fat Walda will probably have a boy!" crap. When Zombie Jon starts his march south, I could see Ramsay killing his father and then attempting to pledge fealty, only for Azor Ahai to seriously fuck his shit up for what he did to Sansa.

[spike]

if i were roose, i wouldn't have told that psycho about my pregnant wife carrying an heir in the first place.