HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)

[epilogue]

If this is basically it for the Faceless Men, if Arya is going to get the fuck out of there (maybe kill one or two of them to do so, whatever) then what was the fucking point? Seems really troublesome to me if this is it.

Training? It seems like the surviving Stark children all had to go off somewhere and learn how to be effective players. Jon went North, Bran went North in a different way, Sansa had to get fucked over enough times to let go of her childhood naivety and learn some agency, and Arya went East to learn to be an assassin. Now they're all coming back, let's see their talents put to use.

It's not much different in the books in that regard, only with Arya and the Faceless Men:

Spoiler: show

the FM do a lot more to add to the richness of this fantasy world, and open doors for tie ins to other plot lines (Balon, Pate, who knows what else?)

Yeah, I guess. Maybe that's it. Just seems like a ton more going on in the books and a lot of mystery and unanswered questions that show doesn't seem like it wants to deal with. Which is fine, it's a tv show. But looking back on the whole thing will be frustrating if there's nothing more for Arya than three seasons chilling in the House of Black and White if this is all we get. It could have been done in have a season.

Sure, but then they'd be even further ahead than the books with yet another storyline and would have to make up a bunch of bullshit.

Which the show has proven to be its bread and butter. This thing is way better when they're making up their own bullshit.

I guess, sort of. I mean

Spoiler: show

the Sansa/Jon storyline is now the most interesting in the show

, but is that a testament to the show runners being really good at making shit up on their own or really bad at adapting the book without GRRM's help?

I think so, yeah. Go back all the way to the first season. Some of the most gripping scenes are scenes that never appeared in the books. Look at any time Varys and Littlefinger talk, for example.

Really, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that show hasn't enhanced or flat out improved upon is the Faceless Men (okay and Dorne). And the only reason I'm saying that is that we don't know what Martin's going to do with them yet. And we haven't seen exactly how it all plays out in the show either. So it's a question mark.

The show runners have streamlined a fat story, getting fatter and risking rolling entirely out of control, and given us one o the most consistently excellent programs in television history. Many of my favorite things about the show have been book variations.

The show has mishandled Dorne, sure, but let's not act like Dorne is some great piece of storytelling in the books either. For me, the show is better when it uses the books as a blueprint and then tells a story better suited for TV from that blueprint without being a slave to the source.

And obviously George doesn't actually give any kind of a shit about actually finishing his fucking story, so I'm all about letting these guys do it for him. At least shit's moving on the show.

[Norah]

If this is basically it for the Faceless Men, if Arya is going to get the fuck out of there (maybe kill one or two of them to do so, whatever) then what was the fucking point? Seems really troublesome to me if this is it.

Training? It seems like the surviving Stark children all had to go off somewhere and learn how to be effective players. Jon went North, Bran went North in a different way, Sansa had to get fucked over enough times to let go of her childhood naivety and learn some agency, and Arya went East to learn to be an assassin. Now they're all coming back, let's see their talents put to use.

It's not much different in the books in that regard, only with Arya and the Faceless Men:

Spoiler: show

the FM do a lot more to add to the richness of this fantasy world, and open doors for tie ins to other plot lines (Balon, Pate, who knows what else?)

Yeah, I guess. Maybe that's it. Just seems like a ton more going on in the books and a lot of mystery and unanswered questions that show doesn't seem like it wants to deal with. Which is fine, it's a tv show. But looking back on the whole thing will be frustrating if there's nothing more for Arya than three seasons chilling in the House of Black and White if this is all we get. It could have been done in have a season.

Sure, but then they'd be even further ahead than the books with yet another storyline and would have to make up a bunch of bullshit.

Which the show has proven to be its bread and butter. This thing is way better when they're making up their own bullshit.

I guess, sort of. I mean

Spoiler: show

the Sansa/Jon storyline is now the most interesting in the show

, but is that a testament to the show runners being really good at making shit up on their own or really bad at adapting the book without GRRM's help?

I think so, yeah. Go back all the way to the first season. Some of the most gripping scenes are scenes that never appeared in the books. Look at any time Varys and Littlefinger talk, for example.

Really, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that show hasn't enhanced or flat out improved upon is the Faceless Men (okay and Dorne). And the only reason I'm saying that is that we don't know what Martin's going to do with them yet. And we haven't seen exactly how it all plays out in the show either. So it's a question mark.

The show runners have streamlined a fat story, getting fatter and risking rolling entirely out of control, and given us one o the most consistently excellent programs in television history. Many of my favorite things about the show have been book variations.

The show has mishandled Dorne, sure, but let's not act like Dorne is some great piece of storytelling in the books either. For me, the show is better when it uses the books as a blueprint and then tells a story better suited for TV from that blueprint without being a slave to the source.

And obviously George doesn't actually give any kind of a shit about actually finishing his fucking story, so I'm all about letting these guys do it for him. At least shit's moving on the show.

I don't know, it seems like they're fucking up Euron and the Kingsmoot as well.

I mean "let's go kill my niece and nephew!" and everyone, Damphair included, just going along with it?

[epilogue]

I don't know, it seems like they're fucking up Euron and the Kingsmoot as well.

I mean "let's go kill my niece and nephew!" and everyone, Damphair included, just going along with it?

I don't have any issue with that particular aspect. Makes sense in the world they've created. And it's a tiny fragment that we get playing into the feminist issues of the fourth book.

Euron isn't a very compelling character in the book. He's a bit less drawn here but we've only seen him in one episode. I'll give it time.

The Kingsmoot stuff wasn't as compelling as the books, I'll give you that. But it had nothing to do with "let's go kill my niece and nephew!"

[Norah]

I don't know, it seems like they're fucking up Euron and the Kingsmoot as well.

I mean "let's go kill my niece and nephew!" and everyone, Damphair included, just going along with it?

I don't have any issue with that particular aspect. Makes sense in the world they've created. And it's a tiny fragment that we get playing into the feminist issues of the fourth book.

Euron isn't a very compelling character in the book. He's a bit less drawn here but we've only seen him in one episode. I'll give it time.

The Kingsmoot stuff wasn't as compelling as the books, I'll give you that. But it had nothing to do with "let's go kill my niece and nephew!"

Kinslaying is supposed to be a big deal, Joey.

[Norah]

I'm sorry that condescending tone was entirely unnecessary.

[epilogue]

I don't know, it seems like they're fucking up Euron and the Kingsmoot as well.

I mean "let's go kill my niece and nephew!" and everyone, Damphair included, just going along with it?

I don't have any issue with that particular aspect. Makes sense in the world they've created. And it's a tiny fragment that we get playing into the feminist issues of the fourth book.

Euron isn't a very compelling character in the book. He's a bit less drawn here but we've only seen him in one episode. I'll give it time.

The Kingsmoot stuff wasn't as compelling as the books, I'll give you that. But it had nothing to do with "let's go kill my niece and nephew!"

Kinslaying is supposed to be a big deal, Joey.

Not when the kin your slaying are a girl and a traitor, Pete. Also, the kinslayer is the fucking king. Disobeying the king is a bigger deal.

[Norah]

I don't know, it seems like they're fucking up Euron and the Kingsmoot as well.

I mean "let's go kill my niece and nephew!" and everyone, Damphair included, just going along with it?

I don't have any issue with that particular aspect. Makes sense in the world they've created. And it's a tiny fragment that we get playing into the feminist issues of the fourth book.

Euron isn't a very compelling character in the book. He's a bit less drawn here but we've only seen him in one episode. I'll give it time.

The Kingsmoot stuff wasn't as compelling as the books, I'll give you that. But it had nothing to do with "let's go kill my niece and nephew!"

Kinslaying is supposed to be a big deal, Joey.

Not when the kin your slaying are a girl and a traitor, Pete. Also, the kinslayer is the fucking king. Disobeying the king is a bigger deal.

The kinslayer wasn't a king when the people decided not to pass judgment for his kinslaying. He admitted to killing his brother, and then they made him king.

They could have just as easily said "drowned god, old gods, it matters not, no man is as accursed as the kinslayer."

Spoiler: show

And in the book, if Kinslaying was no big deal it would completely undermine Victarion's inner turmoil over his desire to kill his brother. You know, the act that Balon had to go to great lengths to avoid happening.

[epilogue]

I don't know, it seems like they're fucking up Euron and the Kingsmoot as well.

I mean "let's go kill my niece and nephew!" and everyone, Damphair included, just going along with it?

I don't have any issue with that particular aspect. Makes sense in the world they've created. And it's a tiny fragment that we get playing into the feminist issues of the fourth book.

Euron isn't a very compelling character in the book. He's a bit less drawn here but we've only seen him in one episode. I'll give it time.

The Kingsmoot stuff wasn't as compelling as the books, I'll give you that. But it had nothing to do with "let's go kill my niece and nephew!"

Kinslaying is supposed to be a big deal, Joey.

Not when the kin your slaying are a girl and a traitor, Pete. Also, the kinslayer is the fucking king. Disobeying the king is a bigger deal.

The kinslayer wasn't a king when the people decided not to pass judgment for his kinslaying. He admitted to killing his brother, and then they made him king.

They could have just as easily said "drowned god, old gods, it matters not, no man is as accursed as the kinslayer."

Spoiler: show

And in the book, if Kinslaying was no big deal it would completely undermine Victarion's inner turmoil over his desire to kill his brother. You know, the act that Balon had to go to great lengths to avoid happening.

Again, this is all fine and good for a 100,000 page series of novels. The TV version is not only easier to digest, it keeps things clipping along AND it's competent within the designed world. Just like in real life, people claim to hate certain acts and oppose them, but then turn around and do them without consequence all the time. It happens in the books, in the show world, and in the real world. It's a telling characteristic. The question becomes what is the show going to tell us about consequences? And that's something we haven't gotten to yet with Euron. We have to wait and see how it plays out before we can cry foul, I think.

The minutiae of rules and history and blah blah blah is fun to read and nerd out about, sure. But it's secondary to the characters and their actions (and the consequences of those actions). Euron's admission of killing Balon and there being no consequence (yet) to the people at the Kingsmoot wasn't ideal. I agree. There was probably a better way to handle it. But it did serve to drive home the point of how totally irrelevant women are in this world, even in the Iron Islands. Which was cool.

Also, what's that quote? Is that from the Kingsmoot in the book?

[Bammer]

Do we really think the young actress could have afforded a price that usually only royals can ante up?

Who says the price is the same for everyone? I seem to recall Arya paying Jaqen for his services but can't remember his 'price'.

The whole point of my post was that there are probably different ways you can "pay" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guys, my post that got bottom paged back on 165 already covered this.

[Mecca]

Do we really think the young actress could have afforded a price that usually only royals can ante up?

Who says the price is the same for everyone? I seem to recall Arya paying Jaqen for his services but can't remember his 'price'.

The whole point of my post was that there are probably different ways you can "pay" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guys, my post that got bottom paged back on 165 already covered this.

You promised that was your last post

[Bammer]

Do we really think the young actress could have afforded a price that usually only royals can ante up?

Who says the price is the same for everyone? I seem to recall Arya paying Jaqen for his services but can't remember his 'price'.

The whole point of my post was that there are probably different ways you can "pay" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guys, my post that got bottom paged back on 165 already covered this.

You promised that was your last post

I have no witty reaction for this.

[lowlight79]

So with the

Spoiler: show

possible Cleagne bowl

this weekend. I am guessing

Spoiler: show

Cersei with be the Lannister

to go this season.

[Simple Torture]

Dawn IRL: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/king- ... -1.3610539

[Simple Torture]

Alt Shift X's latest video is here. Includes some book spoilers (the few that are left) plus references a number of fan theories, so proceed with caution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkegcHB3YjQ

[Coach]

If this is basically it for the Faceless Men, if Arya is going to get the fuck out of there (maybe kill one or two of them to do so, whatever) then what was the fucking point? Seems really troublesome to me if this is it.

I'm not a book reader, but I was thinking on this the other day: What if, in the series finale, the person sitting on the throne tosses off a mask and we find out that the new king isn't who we thought he/she was and that the person used the Faceless Men magic crap to pull if off? I dunno. Spitting bullets here.

[Simple Torture]

If this is basically it for the Faceless Men, if Arya is going to get the fuck out of there (maybe kill one or two of them to do so, whatever) then what was the fucking point? Seems really troublesome to me if this is it.

I'm not a book reader, but I was thinking on this the other day: What if, in the series finale, the person sitting on the throne tosses off a mask and we find out that the new king isn't who we thought he/she was and that the person used the Faceless Men magic crap to pull if off? I dunno. Spitting bullets here.

There are some people who believe Ned is still alive and that a faceless man took his place on the chopping block. I post a lot of fake theories here, but this is one people actually adhere to.

[Mecca]

People are dumb

[epilogue]

Here's something I saw on another board:

So did Cersei and Jamie decide that they didn't really like Myrcella that much anyway? Why is Jamie going to Riverrun rather than after her killers?

I mean, what a great fucking point.

[Simple Torture]

Here's something I saw on another board:

So did Cersei and Jamie decide that they didn't really like Myrcella that much anyway? Why is Jamie going to Riverrun rather than after her killers?

I mean, what a great fucking point.

Even the characters on the show were fucking tired of Dorne.

[Simple Torture]

Alleged episode titles for the rest of the season:

Spoiler: show

Episode 07 - The Broken Man
Episode 08 - No One
Episode 00 - The Battle of the Bastards
Episode 10 - The Winds of Winter