America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?

[B]

Religious fundamentalism seems to be the problem, and we ought to admit that perpetual conflict in the middle east is a big part of that.

What religions are currently having a frequent amount of extremely violent fundamentalism killings?

feel free to go back to Rob's post before I took his quote out of context.

[b_i_revisited]

The second two issues, really their combination in this unique instance, is were I am thinking your and my opinions line up. This event was not only a gun crime, it was terrorism. And it was not only terrorism, it was a hate crime targeting a specific community. A community given protected status by the Left. And it was not only a hate crime, but a hate crime motivated by religion. And this same religion has repeated this same hate crime again and again and again all over the globe. BUT, the same religion is also given protected status by the Left. So we end with a situation where two protected groups are in conflict (intersectionality is real!) and thus the Left (in it's constant denial of reality) simply tosses both out and focuses on issue #1, because to admit that Islam is intolerant of LGBTQ people, would be to force them into deciding between Islam and LGBTQ rights. And based on President Obama's response, I think we know which side they have chosen.

Can you expand on this a little? I don't really understand the "protected status" argument. Shouldn't all minority groups be protected? Shouldn't everyone have a protected status? I think the left sees these groups as being discriminated against and works towards changing that. There is no choice between one or the other, there is simply a choice to fight discrimination or not.

Sort of, not all minorities have equal power and privilege even if they share a common oppressor, and that what makes this situation so head-exploding for the left. Because it highlights how the divergent values of two minority groups worthy of protection in the US (well, the whole world really) can come into conflict. The laser sharp focus on guns to avoid discussing this conflict only makes the situation worse.

Now if you want to argue that the left is too tolerant of Islamic ideals that run counter to American ideals, I'm with you. America is fighting the wrong culture war.

This is exactly what I was suggesting. That for some reason we have chosen to put not criticizing Islam above defending the LBGTQ community and it had tragic consequences this past weekend when it appears a man could not reconcile his faith with his sexuality.

I don't believe it has anything to do with Islam itself, though.

Then you are wrong, because at some point it is so prevalent that it is not extremism any more.





*Obviously it's not "all Muslims". Obviously not all.


None of this takes away from the fact that assault weapons and their ammunition need to be removed from our society now.

[@SkitchP]

While I am very happy members of congress attempted to do something, that whole filibuster thing really kinda skeeves me out.

The democrats filibustering for a law that is largely discriminatory? Basing restricting gun rights on a terror watch list that is largely targeted at a specific ethnic/religious minority?

So the republicans now essentially get something they would want (the ability to further discriminate/watch muslims), for what really is a very small concession of restricting the gun purchases of a very small group (those actually on the list).

And I really feel like this small step is more of a HEY LOOK WE DID SOMETHING! than a "we've taken the first step to larger restrictions"

[Jorge]

The FBI is now saying the dude had in the past claimed allegiance with Hezbollah and with al-Nusra, which kind of complicates the whole ISIS angle

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lub-attack

CIA has not found any link between Orlando killer and ISIS, says agency chief

[Fuck You Jobu]

The FBI is now saying the dude had in the past claimed allegiance with Hezbollah and with al-Nusra, which kind of complicates the whole ISIS angle

Why does support for one terrorist organization automatically mean he can't support another terrorist organization?

The US supported Iraq, until it didn't and invaded it. Twice.

The US was against the USSR, until it wasn't because of WW2, and then it was again. Then after disentegration....

Things change.

[Jorge]

That's definitely true. But the differences in ideology and motivation between Hezbollah and ISIS aren't minor, and it's starting to look like this guy didn't really know much about them. The evidence appears to show that he wasn't directly affiliated with any terrorist group (meaning this attack wasn't planned or coordinated with the aid of a third party), but by himself. He seemed to be pulled in opposite directions between his religious radicalization and his sexuality, and wanted to latch on to something. Of course more evidence may appear that completely contradicts that theory.

[Fuck You Jobu]

That's definitely true. But the differences in ideology and motivation between Hezbollah and ISIS aren't minor, and it's starting to look like this guy didn't really know much about them. The evidence appears to show that he wasn't directly affiliated with any terrorist group (meaning this attack wasn't planned or coordinated with the aid of a third party), but by himself. He seemed to be pulled in opposite directions between his religious radicalization and his sexuality, and wanted to latch on to something. Of course more evidence may appear that completely contradicts that theory.

The fact that he knows little about them, and wanted to grasp on to some/any social construct, means he very well could have changed his mind between the various terrorist organizations.

[@SkitchP]

That's definitely true. But the differences in ideology and motivation between Hezbollah and ISIS aren't minor, and it's starting to look like this guy didn't really know much about them. The evidence appears to show that he wasn't directly affiliated with any terrorist group (meaning this attack wasn't planned or coordinated with the aid of a third party), but by himself. He seemed to be pulled in opposite directions between his religious radicalization and his sexuality, and wanted to latch on to something. Of course more evidence may appear that completely contradicts that theory.

The fact that he knows little about them, and wanted to grasp on to some/any social construct, means he very well could have changed his mind between the various terrorist organizations.

I think it's way more likely that he was just trying to "be a part of something" even though he wasn't really involved.

[Fuck You Jobu]

That's definitely true. But the differences in ideology and motivation between Hezbollah and ISIS aren't minor, and it's starting to look like this guy didn't really know much about them. The evidence appears to show that he wasn't directly affiliated with any terrorist group (meaning this attack wasn't planned or coordinated with the aid of a third party), but by himself. He seemed to be pulled in opposite directions between his religious radicalization and his sexuality, and wanted to latch on to something. Of course more evidence may appear that completely contradicts that theory.

The fact that he knows little about them, and wanted to grasp on to some/any social construct, means he very well could have changed his mind between the various terrorist organizations.

I think it's way more likely that he was just trying to "be a part of something" even though he wasn't really involved.

Perhaps not involved, but certainly ideologically influenced, which is really what matters.

[McParadigm]

That's definitely true. But the differences in ideology and motivation between Hezbollah and ISIS aren't minor, and it's starting to look like this guy didn't really know much about them. The evidence appears to show that he wasn't directly affiliated with any terrorist group (meaning this attack wasn't planned or coordinated with the aid of a third party), but by himself. He seemed to be pulled in opposite directions between his religious radicalization and his sexuality, and wanted to latch on to something. Of course more evidence may appear that completely contradicts that theory.

The fact that he knows little about them, and wanted to grasp on to some/any social construct, means he very well could have changed his mind between the various terrorist organizations.

I think it's way more likely that he was just trying to "be a part of something" even though he wasn't really involved.

Perhaps not involved, but certainly ideologically influenced, which is really what matters.

I would argue that people's personal intolerances or beliefs develop fairly independent from their acquired or desired affiliations.

[Fuck You Jobu]

That's definitely true. But the differences in ideology and motivation between Hezbollah and ISIS aren't minor, and it's starting to look like this guy didn't really know much about them. The evidence appears to show that he wasn't directly affiliated with any terrorist group (meaning this attack wasn't planned or coordinated with the aid of a third party), but by himself. He seemed to be pulled in opposite directions between his religious radicalization and his sexuality, and wanted to latch on to something. Of course more evidence may appear that completely contradicts that theory.

The fact that he knows little about them, and wanted to grasp on to some/any social construct, means he very well could have changed his mind between the various terrorist organizations.

I think it's way more likely that he was just trying to "be a part of something" even though he wasn't really involved.

Perhaps not involved, but certainly ideologically influenced, which is really what matters.

I would argue that people's personal intolerances or beliefs develop fairly independent from their acquired or desired affiliations.

The sheep in this country?

[dprival78]

so this guy was on the fed's radar for years.. and now we're hearing that a florida gun shop owner denied selling him ammo because of suspicious behavior - which he reported to authorities.

and this still happens.

who is going to lose their jobs over this? with all the tools (unconstitutional or not) the feds have to supposedly keep us safe, they failed to do so in a collosal way here.

and yet, the cries are for more surveillance, more wars, and less ability for people to defend themselves.

[b_i_revisited]

so this guy was on the fed's radar for years.. and now we're hearing that a florida gun shop owner denied selling him ammo because of suspicious behavior - which he reported to authorities.

and this still happens.

How would a law enforcement agent determine the difference between someone who poses an honest threat and some bigot who didn't like the way a brown skinned man looked when that man walked into his gun store? How many thousands of tips like that do they get a week that turn out to be bias driven paranoia? Muslim Americans who have expressed dissatisfaction with the US still have exactly the same rights as everyone else, including 2nd Amendment rights, and Monday-morning armchair quarterbacking law enforcement after the fact is a pointless exercise.

who is going to lose their jobs over this? with all the tools (unconstitutional or not) the feds have to supposedly keep us safe, they failed to do so in a collosal way here.

and yet, the cries are for more surveillance, more wars, and less ability for people to defend themselves.

Look... contrary to what some 'freedom advocates' might have you believe, the government is not constantly surveilling everyone in the country. Not even just the furr-in looking fellas. There is a complex processes to get a such a warrant approved and even then it can really only help after the fact in reconstructing the event.

And, like the title of the thread suggests, the government can't keep us safe until we elect people people who are willing to the 'well regulated' part back into law.

[pepperwhiteMFC]

It would be nice if everyone in the human race started to well regulate what goes on in their sad little minds.

[Kaius]

It would be nice if everyone in the human race started to well regulate what goes on in their sad little minds.

Heard that, barry

[pepperwhiteMFC]

It would be nice if everyone in the human race started to well regulate what goes on in their sad little minds.

Heard that, barry

Easier said than done, however, and that's why our space lizard overlords considered us to be a planet full of shit heads.

[Strat]

In wake of tragedy, Minnesota boats must now have CO detectors

39 MINUTES AGO

In wake of constant tragedies, US Gov't does nothing to further gun safety measures

39 MINUTES AGO

[Strat]

Im sorry but this is just really sad. its a failure on so many levels and I hvae to fucking imagine if we got some goddamn COMMON SENSE GUN LAWS, that this guy's name could have been known, brought up, whatever, etc, when he bought his fucking assault rifles. A background check, a data base. Something.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/us/orland ... index.html

[B]

In America, every person has two senators that represent them in the Senate, they are the senators for your state. You also have a representative, you can find out who your congress people are here: http://whoismyrepresentative.com/

Then you can google those people and find their addresses. You can also google them along with any issue and find a fair amount about how they vote on stuff.

You also have people who represent you at the state level...you should feel free to write one of them a letter as well.

If you live somewhere else, use your fingers and push on the letters on your physical or software based keyboard until Google / wikipedia tells you how your country works. I do not know.

You wanna look at my letters? Oh, how intimate!

I basically sent the same letter to both Steve Daines (Senate) and Ryan Zinke (House) who have very similar positions. It's this one:

To the Honorable Steve Daines,
My name is Hank Green, I own a business in Missoula creating education media. I’m proud to employ over 20 Montanans. We just moved into a nice new office downtown if you would ever like to come visit.

I am writing this in the wake of the attacks in Orlando. Not only were 49 people killed in that night club but, the night before, a colleague of mine, Christina Grimmie, was killed by a man with a violent history who had purchased two guns the week before.

I know that we are Montanans and that guns are a part of our history and our culture. I have no interest in ending my neighbors access to firearms. However, we have a problem, and we need to take steps to address it. I believe it is time for you to consider a change in your position. I would like that you consider working to:

1. Ban the sale or transfer of assault rifles such as the ones used in the Orlando, Aurora, and San Bernardino murders.
2. Allow the CDC to study gun violence as a public health issue.

I know this is a lot to ask, and that it is unlikely that you will change your heart on any of these issues. But after losing my friend, and knowing so many others did this weekend as well, I could not, in good conscience, move forward without asking this of you.

Thank you for your public service,

Hank Green
Montanan, business owner, and educator.

---

This one is to Jon Tester...we agree more often:

To the Honorable Jon Tester
My name is Hank Green, I own a business in Missoula creating education media. I’m proud to employ over 20 Montanans. We just moved into a nice new office downtown if you would ever like to come visit.

I am writing this in the wake of the attacks in Orlando. Not only were 49 people killed in that night club but, the night before, a colleague of mine, Christina Grimmie, was killed by a man with a violent history who had purchased two guns the week before.

I would like to thank you for your support of common sense gun regulations. You provide the exact kind of leadership on this issue that I would ask of you. I know this is not an easy position to have in Montana, and that your moderate views hurt you. Don't think that goes unnoticed.

After the recent shootings, I'd like to ask you to work in Congress for the following:

1. A ban on high-capacity magazines for rifles
2. Re-instating funding for the CDC to study and fund the study of gun violence as a public health issue.

I am very pleased to be able to support you and look forward to doing so in 2018. Thank you for your public service,

Hank Green
Montanan, business owner, and educator.

[96583UP]

In America, every person has two senators that represent them in the Senate, they are the senators for your state. You also have a representative, you can find out who your congress people are here: http://whoismyrepresentative.com/

Then you can google those people and find their addresses. You can also google them along with any issue and find a fair amount about how they vote on stuff.

You also have people who represent you at the state level...you should feel free to write one of them a letter as well.

If you live somewhere else, use your fingers and push on the letters on your physical or software based keyboard until Google / wikipedia tells you how your country works. I do not know.

You wanna look at my letters? Oh, how intimate!

I basically sent the same letter to both Steve Daines (Senate) and Ryan Zinke (House) who have very similar positions. It's this one:

To the Honorable Steve Daines,
My name is Hank Green, I own a business in Missoula creating education media. I’m proud to employ over 20 Montanans. We just moved into a nice new office downtown if you would ever like to come visit.

I am writing this in the wake of the attacks in Orlando. Not only were 49 people killed in that night club but, the night before, a colleague of mine, Christina Grimmie, was killed by a man with a violent history who had purchased two guns the week before.

I know that we are Montanans and that guns are a part of our history and our culture. I have no interest in ending my neighbors access to firearms. However, we have a problem, and we need to take steps to address it. I believe it is time for you to consider a change in your position. I would like that you consider working to:

1. Ban the sale or transfer of assault rifles such as the ones used in the Orlando, Aurora, and San Bernardino murders.
2. Allow the CDC to study gun violence as a public health issue.

I know this is a lot to ask, and that it is unlikely that you will change your heart on any of these issues. But after losing my friend, and knowing so many others did this weekend as well, I could not, in good conscience, move forward without asking this of you.

Thank you for your public service,

Hank Green
Montanan, business owner, and educator.

---

This one is to Jon Tester...we agree more often:

To the Honorable Jon Tester
My name is Hank Green, I own a business in Missoula creating education media. I’m proud to employ over 20 Montanans. We just moved into a nice new office downtown if you would ever like to come visit.

I am writing this in the wake of the attacks in Orlando. Not only were 49 people killed in that night club but, the night before, a colleague of mine, Christina Grimmie, was killed by a man with a violent history who had purchased two guns the week before.

I would like to thank you for your support of common sense gun regulations. You provide the exact kind of leadership on this issue that I would ask of you. I know this is not an easy position to have in Montana, and that your moderate views hurt you. Don't think that goes unnoticed.

After the recent shootings, I'd like to ask you to work in Congress for the following:

1. A ban on high-capacity magazines for rifles
2. Re-instating funding for the CDC to study and fund the study of gun violence as a public health issue.

I am very pleased to be able to support you and look forward to doing so in 2018. Thank you for your public service,

Hank Green
Montanan, business owner, and educator.

for those of us who have ceded all autonomy to Amazon Prime and are now incapable of doing anything other than 1-click purchasing; it would be great if someone made an app/website where there is a template out there that discusses support for gun restrictions and you just type in your name and address and it identifies your congressional reps and then you pay online for postage/shipping online (prob under $1) and it mails a postcard with this type of stuff on it to your reps

then you don't have to get up, go find envelopes, find paper, write stuff, find a stamp, etc and if you are out of any of them, have to go to the post office and risk getting caught up in a mass shooting

instead just like a 1-click amazon prime type thing for congress letter sending ... a lot more letters would probably get sent