Brexit

[ABNorman]

Not only what I, as a Brett, use to announce my exit, but the June 23 referendum on whether Britain stays in the EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642

I'm going to need a LOT more information to make a choice, and I'm pretty sure there's not going to be much of informed voter going into this. The scaremongering from both sides has already begun.

Man alive, I hate politicians.

[96583UP]

vote no

[BurtReynolds]

vote 'yes' to secession all the time!

[Birds in Hell]

This is getting close!

[b_i_revisited]

This is getting close!

#TeamBrexit

[Birds in Hell]

This is getting close!

#TeamBrexit

[simple schoolboy]

The no vote seems to bank highly on the idea of the Eurozone being totally resistant to compromise or change, and thus will be brutally punishing to any country that exits. So, vote stay because he didn't mean to hit you?

[ABNorman]

I'm voting to remain.

1) Leave campaigners are very quick to leap on the idea of a "United States of Europe" as a bad thing, but really, isn't that something the world should be meandering towards over the next hundred years? How insignificant is the concept of "country" going to be once we've colonised several planets? And surely in the here and now, we can better fix problems with pooled resources and a sense of being in this together?

Essentially, I'm sick of blind nationalism - I have no attachment to the idea of Great Britain as this mighty independent state, and even with that in mind, leaving the EU decreases its global significance and influence rather than increasing it.

2) The UK would, in all likelihood, be forced to adopt most of the EU regulations in order to trade with it, so that area of argument is largely moot.

3) The EU has forced the UK to buck up on environmental issues, something close to my heart. It's still lagging horribly, and I think would start to lag more if it voted Leave.

4) Purely in terms of the public persona of the two camps: Leave is home to several prominent bigots, and veers uneducated and older. Remain has an equal amount of arseholes, but generally less outright bigoted, and veer educated and younger.

5) I don't think either vote will make too much difference to my middle class life, the economy, immigration, or other policies.

6) Even though they may largely be thinking of the status quo, I'm willing to trust to a point the vast majority of various institutions and people with better degrees and resources than me.

[ABNorman]

The no vote seems to bank highly on the idea of the Eurozone being totally resistant to compromise or change, and thus will be brutally punishing to any country that exits. So, vote stay because he didn't mean to hit you?

Both campaigns have had really awful scare tactics. Leave was "Immigrants!" and Remain was "Economy!"

All of them are dicks.

[BurtReynolds]

1) Leave campaigners are very quick to leap on the idea of a "United States of Europe" as a bad thing, but really, isn't that something the world should be meandering towards over the next hundred years? How insignificant is the concept of "country" going to be once we've colonised several planets? And surely in the here and now, we can better fix problems with pooled resources and a sense of being in this together?

Essentially, I'm sick of blind nationalism - I have no attachment to the idea of Great Britain as this mighty independent state, and even with that in mind, leaving the EU decreases its global significance and influence rather than increasing it.

I see no reason to think we should be meandering towards one monolithic government, or that the idea of "countries" is outdated or destined to go away. That Utopia would be a nightmare in reality. Smaller, more localized government is better able to serve and is more answerable to its people than some gargantuan bureaucracy that isn't even directly answerable to citizens.

Talk to me about Star Trek style world governments after we colonize a few planets. Until then, break this shit up!

[ABNorman]

1) Leave campaigners are very quick to leap on the idea of a "United States of Europe" as a bad thing, but really, isn't that something the world should be meandering towards over the next hundred years? How insignificant is the concept of "country" going to be once we've colonised several planets? And surely in the here and now, we can better fix problems with pooled resources and a sense of being in this together?

Essentially, I'm sick of blind nationalism - I have no attachment to the idea of Great Britain as this mighty independent state, and even with that in mind, leaving the EU decreases its global significance and influence rather than increasing it.

I see no reason to think we should be meandering towards one monolithic government, or that the idea of "countries" is outdated or destined to go away. That Utopia would be a nightmare in reality. Smaller, more localized government is better able to serve and is more answerable to its people than some gargantuan bureaucracy that isn't even directly answerable to citizens.

Talk to me about Star Trek style world governments after we colonize a few planets. Until then, break this shit up!

Oh sure, I agree that having some kind of central monolithic government would (currently) be a nightmare - I just think this increasing global tribalism is a backslide borne of distrust and bigotry in many cases. There's more to be gained from working together than shutting out and going insular.

[BurtReynolds]

For sure.


BTW "Brexit" is an odd word. Makes me uncomfortable. Maybe because it reminds me of brisket, which I'm not a huge fan of.

[ABNorman]

It also turns up a lot of images of breasts on image library sites - if my workplace actually scanned my internet history, I'd have some explaining to do.

[Birds in Hell]

Probably no surprise but I think a world in which national identity and sovereignty is slowly subsumed by global power is basically a nightmare scenario.

[ABNorman]

Probably no surprise but I think a world in which national identity and sovereignty is slowly subsumed by global power is basically a nightmare scenario.

I just don't think national identity is threatened by a global approach. But on the other hand, I also think "national identity" is a pointless thing to cling to. Sovereignty is an issue though.

[Birds in Hell]

But on the other hand, I also think "national identity" is a pointless thing to cling to.

Unsurprisingly, I don't agree (at least, not entirely).

I think it's the kind of sentiment that has an element of oikophobia (in an 'aversion of the familiar' sense) to it too; do people who feel this way also think that (for example) Japanese national identity doesn't or shouldn't exist?

Sovereignty is an issue though.

I feel that Brexit is imperative even if it were for this reason alone.

[Jorge]

Did your brain jump to the Japan example because "oiko" sounds a bit like a Japanese word?

[bart]

it made me think of a pig

[BurtReynolds]

[b_i_revisited]

This is getting close!

#TeamBrexit

Actually, I don't really understand the pros and cons other than the immigration issue. And anytime I see the globalists fight so hard for something, it's usually a good bet to go the other way.