Ishmael

[Kevin Davis]

I frequently hear folks (most recently Matt Reeder in the "unpopular opinions" thread) talk about how much Eddie has taken from this book but have never really gotten a sense of what this really means. Like, is he taking lines wholesale and inserting them into songs? Or is it more a borrowing of themes? If the former, which lyrics specifically come from the book? (according to Matt, approximately "half of Riot Act" fits this description, though I assume this is hyperbole)

Has some internet PJ geek, like Stip or somebody, created a reference guide for this yet?

[daft twat]

I remember Ed saying it was like the liner notes for Yield.

[VinylGuy]

i think it was one of the main influences for Ed in the Yield era.

[McParadigm]

It's not particularly poetic or descriptive in its design. He's taken ideas, loosely (but not as loosely as Jeff with Master and Margarita). I never noticed any line lifts.

[stip]

The influence is thematic, never lyrical. Ishamel is a exploration/critique of the notion that modern human civilization (not an east/west thing) is ultimately unsustainable, animated by the guiding principle that the world exists for us to exploit as we see fit, and that we are not bound by the same laws of nature (living sustainably, to oversimplify) that the rest of nature is, making us first unable to grasp the consequences of our actions and later prevent us from being able to respond. So see DTE, or the pessimism animating songs like 1/2 Full. There's elements in stuff like cropduster and push me/pull me too.

That part of the book (or series of 4 books, really) is pretty interesting. He also argues that we we need to explore alternate ways of organizing our lives, and leave the way we live behind. Some of the withdrawal themes on those records can also trace themselves to Quinn, but they owe less of a debt.

The quinn stuff is overstated, but it's there

[stip]

and yeah, McP is right. Ishmael is not particularly conducive to lyrical lifts. You'd need to quote whole paragraphs

[Kevin Davis]

Thanks for the replies. Matt's comment yesterday just caused me to wonder if it really was "direct lift"- type stuff (ie "plagiarism," or "intertextualization" as Bob Dylan calls it when he does it), or just the ideas from the book informing the songs, which to me just seems like one of the ways art works.

[tommymtcom]

I'm pretty sure I remember the Gorilla saying "It's evolution, baby"

[bart]

The original lyrics were "Like Pilate, I have a telepathic gorilla," but they were significantly revised during rehearsals.

[96583UP]

yes Ed was much impacted by Ishmael during the Yield era

and during the Lightning Bolt era he was much impacted by this book:

[spike]

I'm pretty sure I remember the Gorilla saying "It's evolution, baby"

[Bob Loblaw]

yes Ed was much impacted by Ishmael during the Yield era

and during the Lightning Bolt era he was much impacted by this book:

Good one.