HBO Show: Westworld

[Simple Torture]

From two weeks ago:

Now the running theory is that there are three timelines wtffffffff Westworld.

Why? What in the show mandates multiple timelines?

The running theory is that: since no humans have interacted between the William and Man in Black stories (only hosts like Dolores and Lawrence, who don't have a lifespan and don't age), that there's no reason to believe yet that they're occurring at the same time; many people believe that William is the Man in Black (which is why we haven't heard his name yet, and we know Ed Harris is rich, and we know that William is about to marry into money). There are holes in this theory, but it's possible.

And now, with the last episode, there are people who believe that the scenes where Bernard talks to Dolores in the basement where Theresa dies isn't Bernard at all, but that it's Arnold from back before he died. When Ford is telling Bernard the story of him and Arnold in an early episode, he shows him a picture that's ostensibly of him and Arnold (http://imgur.com/o8xcZIH). That man in the photo is the host that Arnold meets in the cabin, which is why he asks, "Are you Arnold?" However, since we see this in an "over-the-shoulder" shot from Bernard's perspective, it's now fishy that we've got two dudes (one we know is a host) in an off-centered photograph. The theory goes that there's a third man in the picture, Arnold, off to the right, but Bernard can't see him because he can't see things that would hurt him ("What door?" / "It doesn't look like anything to me"). Bernard is his own consciousness that was designed by Ford, just like everybody else, but physically he's a recreation of Arnold.

Part of me feels a bit bad for the producers. Here they think they've created the next Lost, a show that will cause viewers to obsess over every tiny detail and try to pick apart the show's inner workings as they foam at the mouth for the next episode to come out to reveal a few breadcrumbs for them. They seem to have underestimated either (a) how cleverly hidden their clues were or (b) how easy it is for fans to share information and put together theories or (c) both, resulting in everything being figured out weeks ago. I'd be shocked if there was something jaw-dropping in the finale; since they weren't sure whether this was getting a second season, it'll probably be an ambiguous ending but something that could've stood on its own.

[Monkey_Driven]

I'm not sure the producers meant to hide these things too much. Way too many clues and hints throughout the season.

[Bi_3]

I'm not sure the producers meant to hide these things too much. Way too many clues and hints throughout the season.

The Arnold = Bernard thing was definitely suppose to be a "big reveal".

[Bi_3]

For a show that banked it all on mysteriousness, that ended with a sputter.

And the acting between Cyclops and Delores in that last scene together was beyond abysmal.

[doone]

I think it was supposed to be that wooden; 2 robots having an oldtimey love scene. Don't want it too real for the investors.
That said, Delores shooting Ford didn't surprise you?

[jwfocker]

For a show that banked it all on mysteriousness, that ended with a sputter.

And the acting between Cyclops and Delores in that last scene together was beyond abysmal.

I fell asleep during that scene. I missed the rest of the episode.

[Bi_3]

I think it was supposed to be that wooden; 2 robots having an oldtimey love scene. Don't want it too real for the investors.
That said, Delores shooting Ford didn't surprise you?

Once the multi-timeline thing was confirmed, the rest became apparent. Robot revolution was always the ending and that would only happen with Ford's death. The Samurai World surprised a bit, I never considered there might be other parks in play or in development. And Maeve's decision to stay I suppose. And their complete lack of basic computer auditing and security.


I still don't understand why no one on the staff recognized Bernard was Arnold, or that he never aged, unless they did and I missed it.

[Rangi Guy]

I was quite happy with the way that ended. Not too happy that it might not be back till 2018

[Simple Torture]

I think it was supposed to be that wooden; 2 robots having an oldtimey love scene. Don't want it too real for the investors.
That said, Delores shooting Ford didn't surprise you?

I still don't understand why no one on the staff recognized Bernard was Arnold, or that he never aged, unless they did and I missed it.

I imagine Ford had enough control that there was no one on staff who knew who Arnold was.

[Simple Torture]

I'm still processing the finale, want to write about it a bit more, but I think Maeve's bit was obviously the best part of the finale--not the shoot 'em up that got her out of there, but the reveal that her escape was "programmed" and the big question lingering over her getting off the train: was that programmed as well, or was that an actual choice? Most of the William/Dolores stuff had been telegraphed for weeks, and even though being surprised isn't everything, it also just didn't feel like a satisfying conclusion to our stories (even though this finale was made without knowing if they'd have a second season--you'd think it would've been wrapped up more).

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[Simple Torture]

I've been paying attention to this thread periodically, and I gotta say this doesn't sound like a great show. Sounds like they're fumbling a great situation. Yay or nay?

Yay if you've got nothing else in your to-watch or to-read piles.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[Simple Torture]

I've been paying attention to this thread periodically, and I gotta say this doesn't sound like a great show. Sounds like they're fumbling a great situation. Yay or nay?

Yay if you've got nothing else in your to-watch or to-read piles.

Fair enough.

It's just so rough. 11 hours in, you're still not sure whom to root for--and it's not due to clever deconstruction of the idea of "heroes" and "villains," or a po-mo attempt to create a story without anchors, or anything like that. I think the show thinks there are anchors, people and stories that we're supposed to care deeply about, but very little ever sticks. There were so many hours of work committed to this that it's kind of mind-boggling at how it all falls flat in the end.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[Meddle]

I thought the finale was excellent, and the show as a whole was well done. I'd give the episode an A and the season an A-/B+. The development with Ford was unexpected and makes this season almost seem like it could be backstory for where the show is headed. Thandie Newton, Evan Rachel Wood, and Jeffrey Wright were standouts, and Hopkins was remarkable as well, although the role was pretty much in his wheelhouse.

[spike]

I'm still processing the finale, want to write about it a bit more, but I think Maeve's bit was obviously the best part of the finale--not the shoot 'em up that got her out of there, but the reveal that her escape was "programmed" and the big question lingering over her getting off the train: was that programmed as well, or was that an actual choice? Most of the William/Dolores stuff had been telegraphed for weeks, and even though being surprised isn't everything, it also just didn't feel like a satisfying conclusion to our stories (even though this finale was made without knowing if they'd have a second season--you'd think it would've been wrapped up more).

i think that was maeve's choice, which this analysis supports:

The final step (that we could see) in Maeve's updated narrative was "Mainland Infiltration." Bernard said someone had clearly rewritten her script to include the entire escape, and it seemed to lead to her getting on a train for the "mainland."

We are taking that choice of word to mean Westworld and Delos exists on an island somewhere. But more importantly, this might mean that Ford really wanted at least one host to get out of the park. But Maeve made a different choice at the last minute, and she's now stuck with the rest of the sentient hosts.

[Bi_3]

Not an unreasonable guess since Jurassic Park had a similar premise and was on an island.

[Mecca]

Not an unreasonable guess since Jurassic Park had a similar premise and was on an island.

so was gilligan's island
and lost

[Bi_3]

Not an unreasonable guess since Jurassic Park had a similar premise and was on an island.

so was gilligan's island
and lost

Beyond Westworld

Starring...

Russell Johnson

who was:




HOLY FUCK. Mecca = Johnathan Nolan?