We went to a Holiday party last night and I spoke with some people closely associated with the production.
Ben Mendelsohn's role was initially much, much larger. Tarkin was barely in the original screenplay and there was no Princess Leia in Gary Whitta's original script.
Krennic was originally a Grand Admiral (hence the uniform) and he was Tarkin and even Vader's superior. As has been previously reported, Jyn & Cassian Andor survived the end of the film and Jyn's role was also much larger.
From my understanding, Mendolsohn and Felicity Jones were initially disappointed with their reduced roles (Whitaker had a larger role, too, but he was magnanimous about it). There wasn't any "bad blood", just disappointment. Mendolsohn thought this would be his "huge break" into American cinema but with a largely reduced role, that remains to be seen.
First of all, I love the R1 characters and think they are far more compelling and developed than almost anyone in TFA, most of whom I can barely even recall.
But I do think those script changes, if true, are a shame (except for the ending deaths). It sounds like the Disney machine at work trying to cram in nostalgia pandering. Krennic would have been more interesting in his original form.
I agree. Those items, if true, sound much more interesting in their original form, outside of the deaths.
And I love the characters in R1, too. I lean much more your direction and think they are more well developed and compelling than a lot of the internet (fans and critics) are giving them credit for. But there is more development in TFA. Maybe it's not better development, but there is more of it there with the key players. Still, that's not a rip on what Gareth & Co did with the characters in R1. I adore Rey but I'm a big fan of Jyn, too. There's room enough in this universe for all of them. And god bless Rogue One for expanding the universe a bit. Even if we don't get more of these characters, it was such a joy to see the new worlds they gave us and get a better understanding of life (the good and the bad) before the Battle of Yavin.
This was so much more satisfying than the prequel trilogy. No doubt. And I find myself contemplating this film far more than I did TFA after the first viewing.
tragabigzanda wrote:I liked this movie better than TFA. I have a hunch, and Joey's spoiler seems to confirm it, that the original cut was probably superior (though I also liked Jyn & Cassian's ending in this).
Yeah, I don't think the reshoots turned this thing against itself like it did Suicide Squad. But I do wonder (and I always will now) how much more I would have liked the original version of the film. Again, ending aside, everything I've read (speculation, rumors, insiders, etc) points toward an even more satisfying film. Oh well. I'm still crazy about the film we got. It's hard to be too upset with such a stellar product.
dimejinky99 wrote:Figured out my problem with this film.
It's a film shot within current tastes. It could be a marvel film. Every film is just film shot like that now.
It's 'hip'. It's 'current'
I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. What makes it 'hip'? How does it look Marvel-ish? That seems completely off the mark to me
This movie did not feel like a Marvel movie at all. There were actual stakes and the cinematography was light years better.
I'm with you guys. I'm really not sure what dime means by this. I guess it doesn't feel as hokey and "space opera-y" as the other films? Maybe that's what he means? That it's too heavy and dark and that's what makes it feel more modern than the others? I don't know.
re: reshoots i agree that tarkin's role should have been folded into krennic's, but i like the death's better so thats kind of a wash. i think the whole saw storyline was unnecessary so i dont mind that he was reduced, but maybe he worked better w more screen time.
the key to reshoots isnt just learning what was taken out but what was added. what did we get instead of more time w saw and jyn?
CGI humans just don't look good. I wish they had gotten around that in another way. Tarkin looked good enough, for the most part, but he seemed completely superfluous. Leia was like something out of a videogame cutscene.
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
Other than Jyn and Cassian did any of these characters have arcs, experience growth, learn something or challenge themselves? That's one of the things I struggled with on the first viewing. Excellent performances all around, so my hat is off to the actors, but otherwise these were basically action figures. That's fine to a point (Poe is the same way in the TFA and I really enjoyed him, but he had the much richer story arcs for Rey, Ren, Finn, and Han to support him), but I found in the end I wasn't really hit by any of their deaths. There was excellent tension during the extended finale, but it was driven more by the larger meta narrative than caring about what happened to any given individual.
The droid's death (his name is escaping me right now) was an odd exception.
E.H. Ruddock wrote:So in any war movie I've ever liked, I would usually identify with a main character and generally care more about them than everyone else. Yes, it was always a bummer when the other characters die, but always hits harder when the main character dies. This was a war movie through and through, and a good one at that. It starts out with why our main character is going to war, which gives us a reason to root for her. In this case we knew the outcome of the mission but I don't think that detracted too much from it. I still found myself on edge during the battle on Scarif.
I think the story moved along fine. Achieve some intermediate goals to forward the progress of the end goal.
The cinematography aspect was brilliant as I expected from Edwards. Beautiful, really.
I thought all of the SW tie ins were fine. I think the whole "force is with me" thing was a little overkill, especially with no Jedi featured in the movie. (Which it didn't need)
I did really enjoy hearing "General Syndulla" over the intercom.
I can't say this is better or worse than any other Star Wars film because they all are tied together in such a different way. As far as enjoyment, I enjoyed this more than TFA.
I'm not convinced an arc with progression is the only way to make a character memorable and interesting. It's one way, and the most common way, but not the only way. Especially in a movie that is largely about martyrs; people putting their deeply held beliefs and convictions to the ultimate test.
I've said before and I'll reiterate now, Bodhi was a great character and his death was profound. I actually felt it in my chest and teared up. K2SO's death was the other meaningful and difficult death for me.
Baze wasn't as well developed but his death was powerful as well.
In terms of character arc, did anyone other than Finn and Rey have arcs in TFA? There are a lot of comparisons to be drawn, I think. Krennic was a great villain. Galen was a great mentor character. I just don't think the lack of character arc complaint holds up. Especially in the context of "A Star Wars Story."
Chirrut and Baze were definitely the most meaningful characters for me (besides Jyn). As much as I loved this movie, I actually think Bodhi could have used a little more meat. I was hoping for a different arc from him, especially after he had his mind fucked with by that alien.
That's probably fair. But his (Bodhi's) story worked for me. I would have loved more, sure. And his performance is heartbreaking. But I didn't find it lacking. For me, that character was Chirrut. I really liked him but wanted more.
BurtReynolds wrote:Is Jimmy Smits' appearance the first real nod to the prequels in these new ones? That's a bummer. I guess they really do exist.
There was a throwaway comment about clones in TFA, which I guess would count.
Yeah, there were a few sideways nods but nothing as concrete as Jimmy Smits. Probably the biggest one is that Captain Phasma's suit is made from a Naboo ship. But I don't think that's explicitly stated in the film, just in the supplemental materials. So, beyond that, the specific reference to using humans instead of clones again is the biggest one.
Also, I guess in the theatrical cut we see a flag hanging outside Maz's place that has the same symbol on it as the symbol that's on Anakin's podracer. It has been removed from the Blue Ray release, apparently.
BurtReynolds wrote:Is Jimmy Smits' appearance the first real nod to the prequels in these new ones? That's a bummer. I guess they really do exist.
There was a throwaway comment about clones in TFA, which I guess would count.
Yeah, there were a few sideways nods but nothing as concrete as Jimmy Smits. Probably the biggest one is that Captain Phasma's suit is made from a Naboo ship. But I don't think that's explicitly stated in the film, just in the supplemental materials. So, beyond that, the specific reference to using humans instead of clones again is the biggest one.
Also, I guess in the theatrical cut we see a flag hanging outside Maz's place that has the same symbol on it as the symbol that's on Anakin's podracer. It has been removed from the Blue Ray release, apparently.
