College Football

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Who will win the national championship?

Clemson
6
40%
LSU
9
60%
 
Total votes: 15

jwfocker
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Re: College Football

Post by jwfocker »

darth_vedder wrote:
jwfocker wrote:Few things get under my skin like listening to Dabo talk.
Other than the religious stuff, which is considerable, I love him. He's a great coach for college football. I'm of course seeing this through orange lenses, but I'm glad he is our coach, and I hope he has a nice long run with Clemson. He actually already has... He's been the HC for 8 years and before that was a WR coach under Tommy Bowden.

Oh if I were you I would feel the same way.

When he got up on his fucking soap box though and started deriding players for using football as a platform for addressing social issues I lost it. At the same time he stated that he was using football to preach the word of god and he referenced MLK in some strange, obtuse attempt to push his feelings on the matter.

I'm thinking dude, that is not your place. Not at all. A rich white dude referencing MLK to keep young black men from addressing social issues. Yeah that's not how it works. Also his stance on paying players is sooooo fucking hypocritical. You can't say players shouldn't get paid because people are already too entitled when you're making 5 million dollars.

He needs to get a PR firm.
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Re: College Football

Post by darth_vedder »

Dabo does speak from the hip, and is an emotional fella. He just kinda says stuff, and occasionally goes off on rants about said stuff. But yeah, if I weren't a Clemson fan, I can see where it would get on people's nerves. He sometimes makes it too easy to hate on him. I cringe a little when the Jesus stuff starts with him, but like I said, other than that, I don't have a problem with most of the other things he says / does.


Just out of curiosity, what do you think of Mr. Vedder when he goes off on his soapbox?
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Re: College Football

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Re: College Football

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jwfocker
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Re: College Football

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darth_vedder wrote:Dabo does speak from the hip, and is an emotional fella. He just kinda says stuff, and occasionally goes off on rants about said stuff. But yeah, if I weren't a Clemson fan, I can see where it would get on people's nerves. He sometimes makes it too easy to hate on him. I cringe a little when the Jesus stuff starts with him, but like I said, other than that, I don't have a problem with most of the other things he says / does.


Just out of curiosity, what do you think of Mr. Vedder when he goes off on his soapbox?

Not sure what that has to do with this and not sure why people have a tendency to change the topic to a loosely related situation. I don't mind people talking but I do care what they say and I will call them out on the shit they say if it is pure BS. Especially if they are defending the status quo.

The Jesus stuff is one thing but man that BS argument Dabo used against players who want to get paid was awful and I can't believe more people didn't call him out on it. What crossed the line for me though was the press conference when he was asked about Kap and the pledge of allegiance. Ugh. Shut. The. Fuck. UP. Dabo.
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Re: College Football

Post by darth_vedder »

jwfocker wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:Dabo does speak from the hip, and is an emotional fella. He just kinda says stuff, and occasionally goes off on rants about said stuff. But yeah, if I weren't a Clemson fan, I can see where it would get on people's nerves. He sometimes makes it too easy to hate on him. I cringe a little when the Jesus stuff starts with him, but like I said, other than that, I don't have a problem with most of the other things he says / does.


Just out of curiosity, what do you think of Mr. Vedder when he goes off on his soapbox?

Not sure what that has to do with this and not sure why people have a tendency to change the topic to a loosely related situation. I don't mind people talking but I do care what they say and I will call them out on the shit they say if it is pure BS. Especially if they are defending the status quo.

The Jesus stuff is one thing but man that BS argument Dabo used against players who want to get paid was awful and I can't believe more people didn't call him out on it. What crossed the line for me though was the press conference when he was asked about Kap and the pledge of allegiance. Ugh. Shut. The. Fuck. UP. Dabo.
Wasn't trying to go off topic, rather was just curious b/c you said "using football as a platform" for said soapbox. So with that in mind, I was wondering what you think when other celebrities use their platform to go off on their soapbox (as our favorite frontman EV tends to do).
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Re: College Football

Post by darth_vedder »

re: Paying players... I have mixed feeling. I don't think they should have a flat out salary, and firmly believe that what they get is money in the form of tuition, housing, meals, tutors, personal trainers, stipends and access to exclusive gyms / facilities. That stuff cost a boat load, so are you in favor of giving them those things + a salary?

I think salaried players just opens a pandora's box and college ball is we know it will be dead. Also, is everyone equally paid? Does the walk on OL make as much as the star WR? If you pay them a salary, do you take those other things they get away and make them pay for it? So like pay them 100k, but then make them pay for housing, food, tuition, private tutors, personal trainers, etc...?

I have heard Dabo speak on this and ask similar questions. I don't think he's necessarily wrong, and if you listened to interviews about the subject with him, he's for alternatives, but against flat out paying players a salary. I tend to agree and think some things could be loosened up. For example, if a player wants to make money off an autograph, fine. If EA relaunches College Football for PS and XBox, and college players get a cut/royalty, I have no problem with that. If you buy a player's jersey replica, I have no problem with them getting a piece of that either. I think those things would more than enough compensate the players (in addition to what they already are getting).
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Re: College Football

Post by Monkey_Driven »

darth_vedder wrote:re: Paying players... I have mixed feeling. I don't think they should have a flat out salary, and firmly believe that what they get is money in the form of tuition, housing, meals, tutors, personal trainers, stipends and access to exclusive gyms / facilities. That stuff cost a boat load, so are you in favor of giving them those things + a salary?

I think salaried players just opens a pandora's box and college ball is we know it will be dead. Also, is everyone equally paid? Does the walk on OL make as much as the star WR? If you pay them a salary, do you take those other things they get away and make them pay for it? So like pay them 100k, but then make them pay for housing, food, tuition, private tutors, personal trainers, etc...?

I have heard Dabo speak on this and ask similar questions. I don't think he's necessarily wrong, and if you listened to interviews about the subject with him, he's for alternatives, but against flat out paying players a salary. I tend to agree and think some things could be loosened up. For example, if a player wants to make money off an autograph, fine. If EA relaunches College Football for PS and XBox, and college players get a cut/royalty, I have no problem with that. If you buy a player's jersey replica, I have no problem with them getting a piece of that either. I think those things would more than enough compensate the players (in addition to what they already are getting).
This is the way to go.
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Re: College Football

Post by Green Habit »

darth_vedder wrote:For example, if a player wants to make money off an autograph, fine. If EA relaunches College Football for PS and XBox, and college players get a cut/royalty, I have no problem with that. If you buy a player's jersey replica, I have no problem with them getting a piece of that either. I think those things would more than enough compensate the players (in addition to what they already are getting).
I'm going to start with this first, because the most indefensible part of this issue is not so much that colleges don't pay players (though I do think that's indefensible too), but it's the fact that they don't allow them to even earn money from third parties that have nothing to do with the colleges is the absolute worst. Now, I understand that you'll have to put some regulations on this for pure competitive balance issues (i.e., you don't want rich boosters to "buy" an autograph for thousands of dollars). But it's outrageous that the players can't endorse at all, ranging from Nike to the local car dealership.

My step 1 solution just seems so damn obvious: any player should be allowed to apply for what I'll call "sponsorship" status. In exchange, the player no longer gets a scholarship. That sounds perfectly fair to me: if you're able to generate the money to pay for your education, then I don't see why the taxpayers should be footing your bill. The sponsorship players can spend their money on their tuition, or they can blow it on hookers and blow for all I care, and they can go into debt for their tuition like the grand majority of other students.
darth_vedder wrote:re: Paying players... I have mixed feeling. I don't think they should have a flat out salary, and firmly believe that what they get is money in the form of tuition, housing, meals, tutors, personal trainers, stipends and access to exclusive gyms / facilities. That stuff cost a boat load, so are you in favor of giving them those things + a salary?

I think salaried players just opens a pandora's box and college ball is we know it will be dead. Also, is everyone equally paid? Does the walk on OL make as much as the star WR? If you pay them a salary, do you take those other things they get away and make them pay for it? So like pay them 100k, but then make them pay for housing, food, tuition, private tutors, personal trainers, etc...?
Here's the deal: if the colleges weren't generating millions upon millions of dollars in TV revenue, I might have more sympathy for this model. Hell, this model still exists in most non I-A schools that have no way to generate that kind of revenue, and I don't have a problem with that. But as long as that revenue is coming in, the players--the people who are the most responsible for the product--should have a significant say in how that money gets distributed. In what matter that money is distributed, that can be reasonably negotiated between what they players and the schools want.
darth_vedder wrote:I have heard Dabo speak on this and ask similar questions. I don't think he's necessarily wrong, and if you listened to interviews about the subject with him, he's for alternatives, but against flat out paying players a salary.
I don't know what Dabo said, but any coach that gets paid millions of dollars by the colleges should STFU about any opposition to paying players.
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Re: College Football

Post by Monkey_Driven »

Green Habit wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:For example, if a player wants to make money off an autograph, fine. If EA relaunches College Football for PS and XBox, and college players get a cut/royalty, I have no problem with that. If you buy a player's jersey replica, I have no problem with them getting a piece of that either. I think those things would more than enough compensate the players (in addition to what they already are getting).
I'm going to start with this first, because the most indefensible part of this issue is not so much that colleges don't pay players (though I do think that's indefensible too), but it's the fact that they don't allow them to even earn money from third parties that have nothing to do with the colleges is the absolute worst. Now, I understand that you'll have to put some regulations on this for pure competitive balance issues (i.e., you don't want rich boosters to "buy" an autograph for thousands of dollars). But it's outrageous that the players can't endorse at all, ranging from Nike to the local car dealership.

My step 1 solution just seems so damn obvious: any player should be allowed to apply for what I'll call "sponsorship" status. In exchange, the player no longer gets a scholarship. That sounds perfectly fair to me: if you're able to generate the money to pay for your education, then I don't see why the taxpayers should be footing your bill. The sponsorship players can spend their money on their tuition, or they can blow it on hookers and blow for all I care, and they can go into debt for their tuition like the grand majority of other students.
darth_vedder wrote:re: Paying players... I have mixed feeling. I don't think they should have a flat out salary, and firmly believe that what they get is money in the form of tuition, housing, meals, tutors, personal trainers, stipends and access to exclusive gyms / facilities. That stuff cost a boat load, so are you in favor of giving them those things + a salary?

I think salaried players just opens a pandora's box and college ball is we know it will be dead. Also, is everyone equally paid? Does the walk on OL make as much as the star WR? If you pay them a salary, do you take those other things they get away and make them pay for it? So like pay them 100k, but then make them pay for housing, food, tuition, private tutors, personal trainers, etc...?
Here's the deal: if the colleges weren't generating millions upon millions of dollars in TV revenue, I might have more sympathy for this model. Hell, this model still exists in most non I-A schools that have no way to generate that kind of revenue, and I don't have a problem with that. But as long as that revenue is coming in, the players--the people who are the most responsible for the product--should have a significant say in how that money gets distributed. In what matter that money is distributed, that can be reasonably negotiated between what they players and the schools want.
darth_vedder wrote:I have heard Dabo speak on this and ask similar questions. I don't think he's necessarily wrong, and if you listened to interviews about the subject with him, he's for alternatives, but against flat out paying players a salary.
I don't know what Dabo said, but any coach that gets paid millions of dollars by the colleges should STFU about any opposition to paying players.
Taxes don't pay for athletic scholarships, donors do. There's a big difference.
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Re: College Football

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Monkey_Driven wrote:Taxes don't pay for athletic scholarships, donors do. There's a big difference.
Fair enough, but I don't think that obviates my point. Spend that donor money on something else.
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Re: College Football

Post by Monkey_Driven »

Green Habit wrote:
Monkey_Driven wrote:Taxes don't pay for athletic scholarships, donors do. There's a big difference.
Fair enough, but I don't think that obviates my point. Spend that donor money on something else.
Yeah, like more suites for the rich.
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Re: College Football

Post by Orpheus »

My solution: players who are popular enough should be able to trade on their likeness, and all players should have an individual trust that they get when their eligibility is up or they move on. The trust would have a minimum amount and then additional funds weighted by games/seasons played.
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Re: College Football

Post by Chris_H_2 »

i just want the NCAA, it's millionaire coaches, and the schools' athletic departments to stop perpetuating the hypocritical myth of the "student athlete."
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Re: College Football

Post by Green Habit »

Chris_H_2 wrote:i just want the NCAA, it's millionaire coaches, and the schools' athletic departments to stop perpetuating the hypocritical myth of the "student athlete."
:thumbsup: I now refuse to use that euphemism that you put in scare quotes.
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Re: College Football

Post by Electromatic »

Chris_H_2 wrote:i just want the NCAA, it's millionaire coaches, and the schools' athletic departments to stop perpetuating the hypocritical myth of the "student athlete."
This! Scholarships are a salary, walk ons are interns, but it's horribly wrong to actively prevent people from trading on their own talents while taking in billions on those same talents.
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Re: College Football

Post by darth_vedder »

So should colleges just do away with sports? Move college sports to semi-pro leagues or something?
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Re: College Football

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darth_vedder wrote:So should colleges just do away with sports? Move college sports to semi-pro leagues or something?
Why? They are money makers for many schools. If you have an ethical problem with it Go D3.

The real problem is the forced amateurism in sports that are everything but including the Athletic scholarship.

Oh sure your talents are great to make us money, but if you try...... you're evil. Sign with an agent? The devil.

Spokesperson for a sandwich shop? Oh hell no.

Not one single scholarship athlete in FBS is amateur.
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Re: College Football

Post by darth_vedder »

Electromatic wrote:
darth_vedder wrote:So should colleges just do away with sports? Move college sports to semi-pro leagues or something?
Why? They are money makers for many schools. If you have an ethical problem with it Go D3.

The real problem is the forced amateurism in sports that are everything but including the Athletic scholarship.

Oh sure your talents are great to make us money, but if you try...... you're evil. Sign with an agent? The devil.

Spokesperson for a sandwich shop? Oh hell no.

Not one single scholarship athlete in FBS is amateur.
Yeah, that's why I am totally on board them them getting royalties and such. Salaries, I don't know.
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Re: College Football

Post by jwfocker »

It's a miracle. A writer actually noticed the bullshit coming out of Dabo's mouth.


https://www.thenation.com/article/the-u ... o-swinney/
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