@SkitchP wrote:Shawshank is a very good, very accessible movie. It's easy to watch, and it's themes are universal, but there is also nothing about it that makes me LOVE IT. I think it's place on these type of lists is actually an illustration of it's greatest flaw. Something about it would have to challenge people, which inevitably would turn people off, but no one dislikes it, and everyone enjoys it. If it were a truly great movie, some element of it would be polarizing. It's just not very interesting.
It is basically Sticky Fingers.. a good album that everyone knows and kinda likes, but people that really care probably prefer Exile.
You said this perfectly.
It also sums up the Skitch Patterson account pretty well.
bart wrote:Ebert, Canby, Kael, and most of the other respected big name American reviewers were fans of his during the 70s and 80s. There's just no comparison between him and Michael Bay.
Also, Heaven's Gate got a razzie, as did Stanley Kubrick, so fuck those guys.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting that the Razzies are some golden standard of quality, but pointing out a pervasive enmity towards the man's work during the 1980s as the trashier, more obnoxious director of his ilk. "Widely regarded as one of the worst directors" was incorrect, I guess. I just have a hard time processing the respect he seems to get; I was really surprised to find "Scarface" in Roger Ebert's book of "Great Movies". As far as Michael Bay, I see a clear comparison between the two, if not in critical reception, in the stylized vapidness of their work.
Last edited by Jorge on Sun January 13, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
@SkitchP wrote:Shawshank is a very good, very accessible movie. It's easy to watch, and it's themes are universal, but there is also nothing about it that makes me LOVE IT. I think it's place on these type of lists is actually an illustration of it's greatest flaw. Something about it would have to challenge people, which inevitably would turn people off, but no one dislikes it, and everyone enjoys it. If it were a truly great movie, some element of it would be polarizing. It's just not very interesting.
It is basically Sticky Fingers.. a good album that everyone knows and kinda likes, but people that really care probably prefer Exile.
What about Quiz Show is so challenging that elevates it over Shawshank? To me, they're cut from the same cloth. No one dislikes Quiz Show, either.
I apologize in advance, as this is going to make me sound like I hate Shawshank. I don't.
Even though Shawshank's "good guys" are all prisoners, we see nothing in any of them that indicates they are even remotely complex characters. They are all pretty two dimensional. Sure, we know Red killed a guy 30 years ago, but other than that we see nothing other than him as a perfect boy scout. There is no conflict in the good characters... and the "bad guys" are even more cliche. The only character that really shows any duality side is the main guard. Nothing about any of the discussion is compelling or clever. It really doesn't bring upon any questions to yourself of "how would I handle _____ " situation, other than the "HELL YEAH IF MY WIFE WAS CHEATING ID KILL THEM BOTH."
Where as in a movie like Quiz Show, all the characters have 3 dimensions, they all have flaws that are apparent in how they are handling every situation they encounter. And All of them are interesting, Richard is obviously brilliant, but ended up in a decent, but ultimately pointless job, Van Doren is a man looking to carve his own identity but doesn't know how. Herbie is also brilliant, but so caught up in his persecution complex, he can't do anything of meaning with it. So while none of them are a "bad guy," all of them are significantly flawed, be it by cheating on the Quiz Show, or trying to keep someones name out of it. Meanwhile, the guys that are behind it don't even see the problem in the first place. The scene with Morrow and Scorcese is tremendous. And the whole movie does this with well paced and entertaining discussions. Every step Van Doren takes down that road, you find yourself asking if you'd make the same decisions.. and wondering if it's really that bad. It is just a game show after all.
I haven't even seen Quiz Show, and now I want to.
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
And as far as DePalma goes, The Black Dahlia was such an utter abomination I can accept any bashing of him as accurate. Man Alive that movie was terrible.
Quiz Show is good, and it's a testament to Redford's abilities as a director, but I didn't see anything beyond a straightforward telling of a historical account.
theplatypus wrote:
I haven't even seen Quiz Show, and now I want to.
Now I'm afraid I've oversold it
I really enjoy it.
I don't think you've over sold it. It's a great movie. I just disagree that Shawshank's characters are two dimensional, and I prefer it's overall story to Quiz Show's.
Harry Lime wrote:Quiz Show is good, and it's a testament to Redford's abilities as a director, but I didn't see anything beyond a straightforward telling of a historical account.
The inner struggle going on in Van Doren is mesmerizing and Turturro's performance is great. The tension that Redford and screenwriter were able to create out of this story was amazing.
Harry Lime wrote:Quiz Show is good, and it's a testament to Redford's abilities as a director, but I didn't see anything beyond a straightforward telling of a historical account.
The inner struggle going on in Van Doren is mesmerizing and Turturro's performance is great. The tension that Redford and screenwriter were able to create out of this story was amazing.
Yep. Please don't overlook Rob Morrow though. He is pretty incredible in this as well. It's a shame he never did anything else worthwhile.
@SkitchP wrote:Shawshank is a very good, very accessible movie. It's easy to watch, and it's themes are universal, but there is also nothing about it that makes me LOVE IT. I think it's place on these type of lists is actually an illustration of it's greatest flaw. Something about it would have to challenge people, which inevitably would turn people off, but no one dislikes it, and everyone enjoys it. If it were a truly great movie, some element of it would be polarizing. It's just not very interesting.
It is basically Sticky Fingers.. a good album that everyone knows and kinda likes, but people that really care probably prefer Exile.
You said this perfectly.
It also sums up the Skitch Patterson account pretty well.
I... I.. .i
thank you?
It was meant in the sense that you've been polarizing and challenged people as opposed to the "everyone likes him" account
@SkitchP wrote:Shawshank is a very good, very accessible movie. It's easy to watch, and it's themes are universal, but there is also nothing about it that makes me LOVE IT. I think it's place on these type of lists is actually an illustration of it's greatest flaw. Something about it would have to challenge people, which inevitably would turn people off, but no one dislikes it, and everyone enjoys it. If it were a truly great movie, some element of it would be polarizing. It's just not very interesting.
It is basically Sticky Fingers.. a good album that everyone knows and kinda likes, but people that really care probably prefer Exile.
You said this perfectly.
It also sums up the Skitch Patterson account pretty well.
I... I.. .i
thank you?
It was meant in the sense that you've been polarizing and challenged people as opposed to the "everyone likes him" account
Then I respectfully take back my " " in his defense.
@SkitchP wrote:Shawshank is a very good, very accessible movie. It's easy to watch, and it's themes are universal, but there is also nothing about it that makes me LOVE IT. I think it's place on these type of lists is actually an illustration of it's greatest flaw. Something about it would have to challenge people, which inevitably would turn people off, but no one dislikes it, and everyone enjoys it. If it were a truly great movie, some element of it would be polarizing. It's just not very interesting.
It is basically Sticky Fingers.. a good album that everyone knows and kinda likes, but people that really care probably prefer Exile.
You said this perfectly.
It also sums up the Skitch Patterson account pretty well.
I... I.. .i
thank you?
It was meant in the sense that you've been polarizing and challenged people as opposed to the "everyone likes him" account
Then I respectfully take back my " " in his defense.
@SkitchP wrote:Shawshank is a very good, very accessible movie. It's easy to watch, and it's themes are universal, but there is also nothing about it that makes me LOVE IT. I think it's place on these type of lists is actually an illustration of it's greatest flaw. Something about it would have to challenge people, which inevitably would turn people off, but no one dislikes it, and everyone enjoys it. If it were a truly great movie, some element of it would be polarizing. It's just not very interesting.
It is basically Sticky Fingers.. a good album that everyone knows and kinda likes, but people that really care probably prefer Exile.
You said this perfectly.
It also sums up the Skitch Patterson account pretty well.
I... I.. .i
thank you?
It was meant in the sense that you've been polarizing and challenged people as opposed to the "everyone likes him" account
Then I respectfully take back my " " in his defense.
" in his defense.
