Lightning Bolt: the official album thread

[digster]

Of course I do. And if what you're getting at is "I like Eddie's voice, so I like hearing him sing this punk music", fuckin A. That's great. What I'm a bit bothered by is people who are saying "this is a great song, PJ is back" who wouldn't give this sort of music a second thought otherwise. And then folks who said, earlier in the thread, "of course I'll enjoy a song more if it's Pearl Jam". It rubs me the wrong way, it feels inauthentic.

I mean, I would agree if someone to say that this song is amazing and then slag off all punk, that would strike me as kind of weird. Only because this song, if not derivative, definitely takes some major cues from punk rock.

[epilogue]

Listen to Rod Stewart sing Downtown Train.

That's what we're talking about.

I don't think this is a good comparison, because 1) Tom Waits wrote "Downtown Train"-- I don't prefer his version just due to some sentimental attachment to his voice, and 2) even if RS was the original songwriter, the production and performance are different enough that it's perfectly reasonable to pick a preference based on aesthetics alone. My original point was, if this song came out as is, with a different singer's voice slapped on top, I don't believe most people here would give it a second thought. Even if everything else about it was the same. And this feels weird to me. When people do that, it feels like an unearned love for a song, based on some sort of perceived personal connection with the band.

Even if you're right, what's wrong with that?

It's not a bad thing, but it evinces some kind of failure in critical thinking. The idea that a song is made inherently better or more enjoyable just because it's being played by this particular group of people, performance or songwriting themselves notwithstanding.

I stand by this opinion I expressed earlier.

And I stand by the dispute that calling it a "kind of failure in critical thinking" is condescending and immature. People like the way Ed sounds. They like his voice. They like the tone on Mike's guitar. They like his musical phrasing. These things, to my thinking, fall under aesthetic. You value different qualities over others, fine. Good for you. Enjoy what you enjoy on your level. But I don't think it's cool to tell someone that they're inferior or to imply that they lack intelligence because they value the way a song makes them feel over it's other qualities.

[evenslow]

Listen to Rod Stewart sing Downtown Train.

That's what we're talking about.

I don't think this is a good comparison, because 1) Tom Waits wrote "Downtown Train"-- I don't prefer his version just due to some sentimental attachment to his voice, and 2) even if RS was the original songwriter, the production and performance are different enough that it's perfectly reasonable to pick a preference based on aesthetics alone. My original point was, if this song came out as is, with a different singer's voice slapped on top, I don't believe most people here would give it a second thought. Even if everything else about it was the same. And this feels weird to me. When people do that, it feels like an unearned love for a song, based on some sort of perceived personal connection with the band.

Even if you're right, what's wrong with that?

It's not a bad thing, but it evinces some kind of failure in critical thinking. The idea that a song is made inherently better or more enjoyable just because it's being played by this particular group of people, performance or songwriting themselves notwithstanding.

I stand by this opinion I expressed earlier.

Like stip earlier, I have no doubt you genuinely believe that.

[BurtReynolds]

you are all arguing different things.

[VinylGuy]

There's also no telling how people will feel about this song weeks and months from now (obviously, I suppose). S/T and Backspacer both had relatively positive reactions initially, at least in comparison to how they came to be perceived after the dust had settled. Though this can be a critical lot, there's definitely a 'new PJ glow' that accompanies new releases.

Oh yeah, and most of the times those new releases become " this is shit!!! they lost it!! after a few years.

I agree with this whole " music is subjective" general idea, and of course we are going to enjoy more the music from the artist we care about.
But, again, i also agree with The Platypus in his original post. Most of you seem to " love" this new song too much just because its from PJ.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Welp I like Mind Your Manners. 2013 is shaping up to be the best year musically in a while.

[---]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

[epilogue]

you are all arguing different things.

I'm starting to see that, I think.

[Norah]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

[Birds in Hell]

But it seems silly to have such fervent support for a song on a board that rarely mentions all those acts that have spent many years doing the EXACT SAME thing, often better.

My (obvious) response to that is that it isn't the exact same thing at all as, in this particular instance, the guitars are being played by Stone Gossard and Mike McCready, the drums are being played by Matt Cameron and so forth.

[Lament]

Pearl Jam (like any other massive act; Springsteen, U2, Radiohead) has a significant group of fans who are Pearl Jam fans before they're music fans. They're the ones who come here and can't believe everyone isn't more grateful that Pearl Jam deems us worthy to exist in the same universe as them. I have no doubt that all of these fans a. Love this song, and b. Would turn it off 30 seconds into if they didn't know it was Pearl Jam, so I totally think that side of the argument is very valid. Over at the Pit I would imagine this is probably 85% of the people posting over there. Pearl Jam is like their favorite sports team.

That being said, there seems to be a really high percentage of fans here who are genuinely music fans, and probably do like it because of the quality. I mean, if you are a true, dyed in the wool music fan who had their gateway opened by Pearl Jam, you absolutely at the very least have some familiarity with Bad Religion, either from seeing them open for Pearl Jam or for owning Recipe for Hate cause Ed is on it. I tend to believe that most people on here who like the song genuinely like it, and would still like it if it were a Bad Religion or a Husker Du song.

[epilogue]

Of course I do. And if what you're getting at is "I like Eddie's voice, so I like hearing him sing this punk music", fuckin A. That's great.

Okay, good. That's all I've been trying to say.

What I'm a bit bothered by is people who are saying "this is a great song, PJ is back" who wouldn't give this sort of music a second thought otherwise. And then folks who said, earlier in the thread, "of course I'll enjoy a song more if it's Pearl Jam". It rubs me the wrong way, it feels inauthentic.

Who are these people?

[---]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

one day he'll treat us all to a round of golf, a pint of pliny, and a go at the mrs

[evenslow]

My preference for a particular artist or musician will earn them goodwill and I'll be willing to follow them paths I wouldn't normally take, but that's where it stops for me. Saying "this piece of music is inherently more enjoyable because it's this guy whose records I buy all the time" is strange to me.

So you don't prefer like Sinatra's version of The Way You Look Tonight to Tony Bennett's?

Maybe I would because I think it's a better version. What does it have to do with anything?

Don't you have favourite singers who you like to hear sing?

Of course I do. And if what you're getting at is "I like Eddie's voice, so I like hearing him sing this punk music", fuckin A. That's great. What I'm a bit bothered by is people who are saying "this is a great song, PJ is back" who wouldn't give this sort of music a second thought otherwise. And then folks who said, earlier in the thread, "of course I'll enjoy a song more if it's Pearl Jam". It rubs me the wrong way, it feels inauthentic.
McP put it very well earlier in the thread:

I think the real point is that there is literally nothing that this song is doing that is not a part of what those bands/people spent decades perfecting. If you had played this for me and said "Check out this Bad Religion cover that Pearl Jam did for a tribute record," I'd go "Huh...yeah, wow. Where is that song from? I don't remember it." And understand that I realize the enormous overlap that exists in rock music, and how little real stylistic variation there is out there...but this song draws in on its influences with an exactness that goes beyond even the most sycophantic homage. It doesn't do anything that makes it not be a song by those bands, except have a different name on the artwork.

That's fine, I suppose. Like I've said, I think the right context could make this song really work. I'll have to wait and see. But it seems silly to have such fervent support for a song on a board that rarely mentions all those acts that have spent many years doing the EXACT SAME thing, often better.

This is what tends to drive me crazy about you and McP though. Sometimes a song demands to be turned up without an essay on genre placement.

[Norah]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

one day he'll treat us all to a round of golf, a pint of pliny, and a go at the mrs

Think lenny will get performance anxiety?

[doug rr]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

one day he'll treat us all to a round of golf, a pint of pliny, and a go at the mrs

2 out of 3 are doable

[---]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

one day he'll treat us all to a round of golf, a pint of pliny, and a go at the mrs

2 out of 3 are doable

are you saying you'll offer chud a go at the mr

[Strat]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

one day he'll treat us all to a round of golf, a pint of pliny, and a go at the mrs

2 out of 3 are doable

They run out of Pliny out there?

[Birds in Hell]

Pearl Jam (like any other massive act; Springsteen, U2, Radiohead) has a significant group of fans who are Pearl Jam fans before they're music fans. They're the ones who come here and can't believe everyone isn't more grateful that Pearl Jam deems us worthy to exist in the same universe as them. I have no doubt that all of these fans a. Love this song, and b. Would turn it off 30 seconds into if they didn't know it was Pearl Jam, so I totally think that side of the argument is very valid. Over at the Pit I would imagine this is probably 85% of the people posting over there. Pearl Jam is like their favorite sports team.

That being said, there seems to be a really high percentage of fans here who are genuinely music fans, and probably do like it because of the quality. I mean, if you are a true, dyed in the wool music fan who had their gateway opened by Pearl Jam, you absolutely at the very least have some familiarity with Bad Religion, either from seeing them open for Pearl Jam or for owning Recipe for Hate cause Ed is on it. I tend to believe that most people on here who like the song genuinely like it, and would still like it if it were a Bad Religion or a Husker Du song.

Surely that's a false dichotomy.

[Norah]

i love it when doug posts in pjchat

I'm so into everything doug railroad it's sickening.

one day he'll treat us all to a round of golf, a pint of pliny, and a go at the mrs

2 out of 3 are doable