Let the drummer debate continue!

[darth_vedder]

So, what do we think of Matt on the new song? MOR ride cymbal bell? Is the high hat open enough?

[harmless]

So, what do we think of Matt on the new song? MOR ride cymbal bell? Is the high hat open enough?

The bell is OK. It sounds better than playing on the thin edge. The hi-hat is open enough on the rest of the song, but it's not mixed very loudly. None of the drums are, actually. I don't find them punchy enough. I find the snare drum to be too flat and dead. Matt's playing is mostly uninspired and boring, save for one or two small fills that are more interesting. I don't understand the many uninteresting fills in this song. I don't understand why Matt just doesn't go for something more challenging, but I'm used to it now. I guess the only reason it doesn't bother me is that classic punk songs aren't very interesting rhythmically and that's why I don't really like punk: boom-cha, boom-cha, boom-cha, boom-cha. Take away the guitars and it would be polka. I've had to get on board with the song via other elements.

[harmless]

So, what do we think of Matt on the new song? MOR ride cymbal bell? Is the high hat open enough?

*double post, which is weird because I only pressed the button once*

[digster]

So, what do we think of Matt on the new song? MOR ride cymbal bell? Is the high hat open enough?

The bell is OK. It sounds better than playing on the thin edge. The hi-hat is open enough on the rest of the song, but it's not mixed very loudly. None of the drums are, actually. I don't find them punchy enough. I find the snare drum to be too flat and dead. Matt's playing is mostly uninspired and boring, save for one or two small fills that are more interesting. I don't understand the many uninteresting fills in this song. I don't understand why Matt just doesn't go for something more challenging, but I'm used to it now. I guess the only reason it doesn't bother me is that classic punk songs aren't very interesting rhythmically and that's why I don't really like punk: boom-cha, boom-cha, boom-cha, boom-cha. Take away the guitars and it would be polka. I've had to get on board with the song via other elements.

I think there's actually a lot of interesting drumming in punk, or at least rhythmic ideas. I just think PJ seems to have a relatively conservative idea of what it means to add punk into their songs (i.e. barre chords and fast tempos). That being said, punk is up there with indie rock in terms of a genre so wide-ranging it's practically meaningless. If Bad Brains and Patti Smith are both punk, the term is not doing a good job specifying the music being played.

[harmless]

So, what do we think of Matt on the new song? MOR ride cymbal bell? Is the high hat open enough?

The bell is OK. It sounds better than playing on the thin edge. The hi-hat is open enough on the rest of the song, but it's not mixed very loudly. None of the drums are, actually. I don't find them punchy enough. I find the snare drum to be too flat and dead. Matt's playing is mostly uninspired and boring, save for one or two small fills that are more interesting. I don't understand the many uninteresting fills in this song. I don't understand why Matt just doesn't go for something more challenging, but I'm used to it now. I guess the only reason it doesn't bother me is that classic punk songs aren't very interesting rhythmically and that's why I don't really like punk: boom-cha, boom-cha, boom-cha, boom-cha. Take away the guitars and it would be polka. I've had to get on board with the song via other elements.

I think there's actually a lot of interesting drumming in punk, or at least rhythmic ideas. I just think PJ seems to have a relatively conservative idea of what it means to add punk into their songs (i.e. barre chords and fast tempos). That being said, punk is up there with indie rock in terms of a genre so wide-ranging it's practically meaningless. If Bad Brains and Patti Smith are both punk, the term is not doing a good job specifying the music being played.

The vast majority of punk drummers I've heard are not very interesting, or rather, the genre requires them to be very skillful, but that skill doesn't lend the music any diversity. Great punk drummers *need* to be *fast*, that's the only requirement. I am sure there are exceptions (Travis Barker is a good, diverse drummer imo) but I still hate Blink's music because it's nothing but *fast*. So in this case, skillful drumming doesn't mean colourful or interesting drumming. Matt has no idea how to colour his fast drumming with interesting and subtle techniques. There's not much space, in a fast song, to do anything interesting technique-wise, unless you're extremely good. So, Thomas Haake can play fascinating fast grooves, for example. But I can't. Granted, I'm no Thomas Haake, but I do have an imagination for music with more space. I would have no problems with Matt's fast playing being less than great, IF I didn't remember Dave A's fast drumming being absolutely great. Dave A on STBC was miles ahead of this, with plenty of texture and colour. And the same can be said for RVM etc.

[digster]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

[harmless]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

I know what punk drumming's meant to do, and I respect the skill of great punk drummers, it just doesn't really interest me. If I listen to fast music, it's also got to be pretty complex. So I like 'math rock' like Dillinger Escape Plan' because it's based in hardcore punk but is really complicated rhythmically. You just couldn't be Matt Cameron and play that shit. Feel free to recommend me some punk music based on anything I've said, by the way. I am open to it.

[Jorge]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

I know what punk drumming's meant to do, and I respect the skill of great punk drummers, it just doesn't really interest me. If I listen to fast music, it's also got to be pretty complex. So I like 'math rock' like Dillinger Escape Plan' because it's based in hardcore punk but is really complicated rhythmically. You just couldn't be Matt Cameron and play that shit. Feel free to recommend me some punk music based on anything I've said, by the way. I am open to it.

Try giving this a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6nAwa8aiIo It doesn't go against anything you said, but I think you might find it interesting.

BadMusic, don't listen to it. You're gonna hate it and I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT

[Thejambi]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

I know what punk drumming's meant to do, and I respect the skill of great punk drummers, it just doesn't really interest me. If I listen to fast music, it's also got to be pretty complex. So I like 'math rock' like Dillinger Escape Plan' because it's based in hardcore punk but is really complicated rhythmically. You just couldn't be Matt Cameron and play that shit. Feel free to recommend me some punk music based on anything I've said, by the way. I am open to it.

Try giving this a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6nAwa8aiIo It doesn't go against anything you said, but I think you might find it interesting.

BadMusic, don't listen to it. You're gonna hate it and I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT

DafuQ?

[Heathen]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

I know what punk drumming's meant to do, and I respect the skill of great punk drummers, it just doesn't really interest me. If I listen to fast music, it's also got to be pretty complex. So I like 'math rock' like Dillinger Escape Plan' because it's based in hardcore punk but is really complicated rhythmically. You just couldn't be Matt Cameron and play that shit. Feel free to recommend me some punk music based on anything I've said, by the way. I am open to it.

Try giving this a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6nAwa8aiIo It doesn't go against anything you said, but I think you might find it interesting.

BadMusic, don't listen to it. You're gonna hate it and I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT

I don't hate it, I'm just bored halfway through. I wouldn't mind it if I were playing Tony Hawk. But I'm not.

[Strat]

[Jorge]

It's a good thing I'm always playing Tony Hawk, in my head.

[Heathen]

punk

[harmless]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

I know what punk drumming's meant to do, and I respect the skill of great punk drummers, it just doesn't really interest me. If I listen to fast music, it's also got to be pretty complex. So I like 'math rock' like Dillinger Escape Plan' because it's based in hardcore punk but is really complicated rhythmically. You just couldn't be Matt Cameron and play that shit. Feel free to recommend me some punk music based on anything I've said, by the way. I am open to it.

Try giving this a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6nAwa8aiIo It doesn't go against anything you said, but I think you might find it interesting.

Yeah. I enjoyed that. Musically, I like the vocals, and the harmonies (who doesn't like even the cheapest pop punk harmonies?). I also enjoyed the fast guitar chugging to undercut the open chords. That's something this PJ song doesn't have and could do with, but PJ couldn't do it as it requires a fast guitar hand, surely. Drumming-wise, it's got BLAST BEATS taken straight from thrash metal, which mirrors that guitar chugging. I like blast beats and I tend to like metal which includes it. Matt will never be able to play blast beats, but Dave A. played the bass drum with something approaching blast beats, most prominently in RVM and (I think, if I remember) in Whipping. Of course, he could also blast-beat ballads like Black when he played them live, which wasn't entirely appropriate and some people didn't like it, but I did. Double bass drums basically overcompensate for an otherwise less interesting fast rhythm.

[harmless]

It's a good thing I'm always playing Tony Hawk, in my head.

Life is so awesome when you're playing Tony Hawk. Just... everything is better.

[harmless]

I can't really defend Matt's drumming on the song; I agree with you, it's pretty drab overall. I was putting up a defense for punk drumming, or at least punk rhythm section. It may less be the genre and more that Matt can't do this genre well.

I know what punk drumming's meant to do, and I respect the skill of great punk drummers, it just doesn't really interest me. If I listen to fast music, it's also got to be pretty complex. So I like 'math rock' like Dillinger Escape Plan' because it's based in hardcore punk but is really complicated rhythmically. You just couldn't be Matt Cameron and play that shit. Feel free to recommend me some punk music based on anything I've said, by the way. I am open to it.

Try giving this a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6nAwa8aiIo It doesn't go against anything you said, but I think you might find it interesting.

BadMusic, don't listen to it. You're gonna hate it and I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT

I don't hate it, I'm just bored halfway through. I wouldn't mind it if I were playing Tony Hawk. But I'm not.

Actually also this. Sorry Jorge, in spite of everything I said, I turned it off half way through.

[Heathen]

It's a good thing I'm always playing Tony Hawk, in my head.

Life is so awesome when you're playing Tony Hawk. Just... everything is better.

This game isn't technically as good as a lot of other games.

[Strat]

What was that other skater game? I always played it at the arcade...720?

[Heathen]

What was that other skater game? I always played it at the arcade...720?

shit that takes me back

[Jorge]

Actually also this. Sorry Jorge, in spite of everything I said, I turned it off half way through.

Man, it's like 2 minutes long!