Punk and Pearl Jam: A definitions thread

[epilogue]

Punk rock

[BurtReynolds]

I'll tell you about punk rock: punk rock is a word used by dilettantes and, uh... and, uh... heartless manipulators, about music... that takes up the energies, and the bodies, and the hearts and the souls and the time and the minds, of young men, who give what they have to it, and give everything they have to it. And it's a... it's a term that's based on contempt; it's a term that's based on fashion, style, elitism, satanism, and, everything that's rotten about rock 'n' roll. I don't know Johnny Rotten.. but I'm sure, I'm sure he puts as much blood and sweat into what he does as Sigmund Freud did. You see, what, what sounds to you like a big load of trashy old noise... is in fact... the brilliant music of a genius... myself. And that music is so powerful, that it's quite beyond my control. And, ah... when I'm in the grips of it, I don't feel pleasure and I don't feel pain, either physically or emotionally. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Have you ever, have you ever felt like that? When you just, when you just, you couldn't feel anything, and you didn't want to either. You know, like that? Do you understand what I'm saying, sir?

I like Pearl Jam better when they are covering punk songs, not trying to make them.

i like this one.

[epilogue]

I'll tell you about punk rock: punk rock is a word used by dilettantes and, uh... and, uh... heartless manipulators, about music... that takes up the energies, and the bodies, and the hearts and the souls and the time and the minds, of young men, who give what they have to it, and give everything they have to it. And it's a... it's a term that's based on contempt; it's a term that's based on fashion, style, elitism, satanism, and, everything that's rotten about rock 'n' roll. I don't know Johnny Rotten.. but I'm sure, I'm sure he puts as much blood and sweat into what he does as Sigmund Freud did. You see, what, what sounds to you like a big load of trashy old noise... is in fact... the brilliant music of a genius... myself. And that music is so powerful, that it's quite beyond my control. And, ah... when I'm in the grips of it, I don't feel pleasure and I don't feel pain, either physically or emotionally. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Have you ever, have you ever felt like that? When you just, when you just, you couldn't feel anything, and you didn't want to either. You know, like that? Do you understand what I'm saying, sir?

Ed from the Spectrum, night 2?

[Kevin Davis]

May nothing but happiness come through your door.

[spike]

I like Pearl Jam better when they are covering punk songs, not trying to make them.

know your rights /:

[harmless]

If you are a punk fan, but are worried about bands ripping off and copying things, you probably aren't a punk fan.

[bthunders]

I don't think punk rock can truly be defined. When it started there wasn't a mold or a set of rules, or a sound, or a blueprint. The bands weren't influenced by punk rock because it didn't exist, so it was a pure thing. So, a lot of the bands sounded different. I think it's more of an attitude(I know, sounds cliché) and almost a set of morals and general way of being. Most of the first punk bands didn't sound anything like each other. It wasn't until the 2nd wave of punk influenced punk bands that a "sound" was developed. To me, what makes certain PJ songs punk or punk influenced is the intention and attitude behind them, more than the sound.

I don't know, I'm drunk, so hopefully all of that made sense with the thread, haha.

[harmless]

I don't think punk rock can truly be defined. When it started there wasn't a mold or a set of rules, or a sound, or a blueprint. The bands weren't influenced by punk rock because it didn't exist, so it was a pure thing. So, a lot of the bands sounded different. I think it's more of an attitude(I know, sounds cliché) and almost a set of morals and general way of being. Most of the first punk bands didn't sound anything like each other. It wasn't until the 2nd wave of punk influenced punk bands that a "sound" was developed. To me, what makes certain PJ songs punk or punk influenced is the intention and attitude behind them, more than the sound.

I don't know, I'm drunk, so hopefully all of that made sense with the thread, haha.

A very similar argument can be made of 'grunge'. Not a style but a set of styles and an attitude thrown together by a set of bands in a time and place. One of the sounds in grunge was punk. Nirvana majored on the sound and PJ flirted with it. It's the same to this day and I don't think this is PJ 'trying to do punk' any more than any other Seattle song was any other band 'doing' punk.

[dkfan9]

I don't think punk rock can truly be defined. When it started there wasn't a mold or a set of rules, or a sound, or a blueprint. The bands weren't influenced by punk rock because it didn't exist, so it was a pure thing. So, a lot of the bands sounded different. I think it's more of an attitude(I know, sounds cliché) and almost a set of morals and general way of being. Most of the first punk bands didn't sound anything like each other. It wasn't until the 2nd wave of punk influenced punk bands that a "sound" was developed. To me, what makes certain PJ songs punk or punk influenced is the intention and attitude behind them, more than the sound.

I don't know, I'm drunk, so hopefully all of that made sense with the thread, haha.

A very similar argument can be made of 'grunge'. Not a style but a set of styles and an attitude thrown together by a set of bands in a time and place. One of the sounds in grunge was punk. Nirvana majored on the sound and PJ flirted with it. It's the same to this day and I don't think this is PJ 'trying to do punk' any more than any other Seattle song was any other band 'doing' punk.

The four big grunge bands had some dirt in their sound. Nirvana (punk/raw) & AiC (sludge) more than PJ & SG, but all four had it. And then there was the anger, present in all four but often of different natures and expressed differently. PJ had the most righteous anger. AiC's the most desperate. Nirvana's anger always came off as a bit nihilistic for my tastes.

[harmless]

I don't think punk rock can truly be defined. When it started there wasn't a mold or a set of rules, or a sound, or a blueprint. The bands weren't influenced by punk rock because it didn't exist, so it was a pure thing. So, a lot of the bands sounded different. I think it's more of an attitude(I know, sounds cliché) and almost a set of morals and general way of being. Most of the first punk bands didn't sound anything like each other. It wasn't until the 2nd wave of punk influenced punk bands that a "sound" was developed. To me, what makes certain PJ songs punk or punk influenced is the intention and attitude behind them, more than the sound.

I don't know, I'm drunk, so hopefully all of that made sense with the thread, haha.

A very similar argument can be made of 'grunge'. Not a style but a set of styles and an attitude thrown together by a set of bands in a time and place. One of the sounds in grunge was punk. Nirvana majored on the sound and PJ flirted with it. It's the same to this day and I don't think this is PJ 'trying to do punk' any more than any other Seattle song was any other band 'doing' punk.

The four big grunge bands had some dirt in their sound. Nirvana (punk/raw) & AiC (sludge) more than PJ & SG, but all four had it.

Yup.

[dkfan9]

i edited my post before realizing you replied.

[harmless]

But yup to that too.

[Blenheim Augustine]

Without referring to Wikipedia, my understanding of punk in the musical sense is:
- fast tempos
- 16th note drum grooves
- almost exclusive use of power chords; no 3rds or 7ths which are heard in rock, blues and jazz
- guitars emphasise down beats and are generally played with down strokes rather than strumming
- bass patterns that play 8ths and 16ths primarily on the root note of the chord (ska is diffentiated by a reggae approach to the bass and emphasis on back beat with guitar)
- antipathy towards over the top guitar solos

Lyrically punk has been about rebellion against the Status quo.

Obviously there are going to be punk songs that break these rules but these will apply to a great deal of punk and also exclude other styles.

[Sgt. Crackpot]

Without referring to Wikipedia, my understanding of punk in the musical sense is:
- fast tempos
- 16th note drum grooves
- almost exclusive use of power chords; no 3rds or 7ths which are heard in rock, blues and jazz
- guitars emphasise down beats and are generally played with down strokes rather than strumming
- bass patterns that play 8ths and 16ths primarily on the root note of the chord (ska is diffentiated by a reggae approach to the bass and emphasis on back beat with guitar)
- antipathy towards over the top guitar solos

Lyrically punk has been about rebellion against the Status quo.

Obviously there are going to be punk songs that break these rules but these will apply to a great deal of punk and also exclude other styles.

Seriously man, I think you nailed it. I would've said fast beats and basic chugging guitar riffs, but the detail you've gone into shows you know your shit.

[Anders]

Whenever Pearl Jam goes punk is when they fail. They are much better when they are pure hard rock. It's where they started with Ten, and where they peaked in the mid to late 90's.

[harmless]

Whenever Pearl Jam goes punk is when they fail. They are much better when they are pure hard rock. It's where they started with Ten, and where they peaked in the mid to late 90's.

WTF is 'pure hard rock'? The kind of music you like, eh?

[dimejinky99]

I'm blindly ignorant of punk and what I do know of it, I don't like, other than the clash. (They were always more of a rock band to me). So my aversion to it is probably why I don't like when PJ do it, but even I know they don't do it very well at all and I'll usually try find something in their work I can like.

Punk to me was always a snotty attitude thing. It and the bands involved just always seemed to be sneering at everything. Never saw the attraction in that.

[harmless]

I'm blindly ignorant of punk and what I do know of it, I don't like, other than the clash. (They were always more of a rock band to me). So my aversion to it is probably why I don't like when PJ do it, but even I know they don't do it very well at all and I'll usually try find something in their work I can like.

Punk to me was always a snotty attitude thing. It and the bands involved just always seemed to be sneering at everything. Never saw the attraction in that.

I love you dime.

[dimejinky99]

I know

[Sgt. Crackpot]

Awww, it's a lovely Star Wars romance moment.