Celebration Rock with Steven Hyden (PJ Audio History)

[stip]

I think there are certain solo artists where a comparison makes some sense. There are plenty of solo artists who work with the same band, so it depends more on how that band interacts. Radiohead, Wilco, Sonic Youth and Spoon are some other examples of bands that have been able to put out strong work multiple decades into their careers, while bands like The National and The New Pornographers are other bands that I'm pretty sure are approaching the 20-year mark. I would never say it's not hard to keep making good work as the years stretch on, but I wouldn't say it's unheard of either.

I'd like to also just remind the good citizens of RM that, outside of the RM bubble, pearl jam's recent output was all well reviewed and well received. The major singles tracked well (some of them for an extended period of time), sold well, the songs played well, were featured heavily in several tours.

So the decline narrative should be understood that pearl jam is not making music as frequently (certainly true, but how many bands 20+ years in are putting out an album every two years?), it is not as good as the records at their peak (fair enough, but again how many bands are putting out the best music of their career 20 years in), and is not looking to the bands comparatively more obscure and dense records as a template.

Not for nothing, but when albums like Riot Act and Binaural came out they were not particularly well received around these parts either. Probably not to the degree that the last two records were, but people had some huge problems with them. Over time people were willing to put in the time, the effort, the work, and the open mind (that part is pretty critical) to discover what those albums had to offer, appreciate them on their own terms and in the context of the record, what the band was trying to accomplish, etc. Reading these comments it is pretty clear that the same degree of effort, the willingness to engage, is absent the last few albums - with judgements made quickly, albums not being revisited, etc. That's not to say that these albums would become anyone's favorites, or that they are as good as the moments you most treasure, but every single song here has people defending it - some pearl jam fan who found that hook or that entry point into appreciating the song that was produced by the same set of talented musicians who wrote all the music you really care about. There's a lot more going on here, and a lot to love, if people were open to it.

[evenslow]

Is there anything new or interesting in this series?

It placed it well in a time in history. We often forget how Ten and PJ were placed at the time, how MTV was so utterly prevalent and how it was possible for a band like PJ to dominate the media.

I enjoyed it and probably enjoyed it more that they weren't obsessive fans. They acknowledged that PJ weren't the cool band. And they nicely hinted that Ed was a attention seeking fame whore who played the role perfectly.

That last part actually isn't true. They basically landed on "it's complicated." Part of him was the child actor, super-charismatic, undeniable frontman but that was mitigated by ultra-fame and stalker issues, etc.

And they said there was enough room within him for both Springsteen and Fugazi. Which is totally true.

Any narrative that boils it down to Eddie was an attention seeking fame whore is unnecessarily reductive. I don't see why it's so difficult to hold both thoughts in your head at once. Eddie Vedder was a guy burning to be noticed and become like his heroes in classic rock. Alongside that, he was a psychologically fragile dude with a fucked up family history who took a rocket ship to mega-stardom, finding out it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. He disengaged to get some space and then eventually grew up and accepted who he was.

[stip]

the waiting drove me mad/youre finally here and Im a mess.

[evenslow]

the waiting drove me mad/youre finally here and Im a mess.

you should really sum up all of my thoughts in a pithy manner.

[evenslow]

I'd like to also just remind the good citizens of RM that, outside of the RM bubble, pearl jam's recent output was all well reviewed and well received. The major singles tracked well (some of them for an extended period of time), sold well, the songs played well, were featured heavily in several tours.

So the decline narrative should be understood that pearl jam is not making music as frequently (certainly true, but how many bands 20+ years in are putting out an album every two years?), it is not as good as the records at their peak (fair enough, but again how many bands are putting out the best music of their career 20 years in), and is not looking to the bands comparatively more obscure and dense records as a template.

Not for nothing, but when albums like Riot Act and Binaural came out they were not particularly well received around these parts either. Probably not to the degree that the last two records were, but people had some huge problems with them. Over time people were willing to put in the time, the effort, the work, and the open mind (that part is pretty critical) to discover what those albums had to offer, appreciate them on their own terms and in the context of the record, what the band was trying to accomplish, etc. Reading these comments it is pretty clear that the same degree of effort, the willingness to engage, is absent the last few albums - with judgements made quickly, albums not being revisited, etc. That's not to say that these albums would become anyone's favorites, or that they are as good as the moments you most treasure, but every single song here has people defending it - some pearl jam fan who found that hook or that entry point into appreciating the song that was produced by the same set of talented musicians who wrote all the music you really care about. There's a lot more going on here, and a lot to love, if people were open to it.

stop being so reasonable, stip.

[digster]

I don't know. I think the reasons The Fixer or Just Breathe succeeded as a single moreso than Nothing As It Seems really have nothing to do with those songs being better, or even of equal quality. A song like NAIS never had a shot at radio; the other two songs fit right in.

And I think what stip's talking about in the second paragraph, I agree with entirely, but probably come to a different conclusion. I think the fact that those albums haven't taken off in the way the others did may say something about the quality of those records, or at least how some listeners hear them. Stip seems to be saying listeners here aren't hearing the gems in latter records cause they're not trying. I wonder if maybe they don't hear them cause to them they aren't there.

[digster]

I also think there's definitely a few winners from the last few records that are treated as such; it seems like most folks see the songwriting power of Parachutes, Johnny Guitar and a few others.

[VinylGuy]

I agree with Stip.

My complaint with modern pj is basically that they dont release enough music these days. Its been almost 5 years since lB i guess, and its just taking them forever to do a new album, ep or single...but i really like Backspacer and LB, even if the latest might be my least favorite pj album.
Apart from that, i guess this two had the reverse effect Binaural and Riot Act had in the pj universe...everyone else seem to love them, while in the Binaural years it was hard to find someone to talk about it...im not sure really why.

Downloading the first ep of this thing right now.

[digster]

I think I'm more interested to see how he treats the later years. I like Ten, but I feel like I know pretty much exactly how those first two years went down. Most articles, books, even the band's own official film bio seems to concentrate almost solely on Ten and the immediate aftermath.

[stip]

I don't know. I think the reasons The Fixer or Just Breathe succeeded as a single moreso than Nothing As It Seems really have nothing to do with those songs being better, or even of equal quality. A song like NAIS never had a shot at radio; the other two songs fit right in.

And I think what stip's talking about in the second paragraph, I agree with entirely, but probably come to a different conclusion. I think the fact that those albums haven't taken off in the way the others did may say something about the quality of those records, or at least how some listeners hear them. Stip seems to be saying listeners here aren't hearing the gems in latter records cause they're not trying. I wonder if maybe they don't hear them cause to them they aren't there.

Perhaps you're right, but in an atmosphere as reflexively toxic as RM is with new material, where liking a new song requires that you practically apologize for it, and everything is hyperbolically and relentlessly criticized it's hard to imagine people really approaching new material with a mind open towards understanding and discovery - to sit down and give songs a deep dive careful listen, to invest in multiple takes until the song unlocks itself. The fact that every one of these songs has some champion who hears something of value in it (and different people each time) tells me there's probably something there worth exploring

Songs that have been rehabilitated like Pilate, Get Right, and Evacuation simply will not get that chance, and even if it did that listen will be colored by this community's approach to the music. You can overcome it, I suppose, but everything is hugely handicaped going in.

[stip]

Joey made the following post in the Yellow Moon/Swallowed Whole/LTRP thread

I think I just need to sit down with the song like I used to do back in the day when I didn't have a billion options for distraction. Just put on some headphones, get out the lyrics sheet, sit on the floor and listen to it six or seven times in a row and really focus in on what's happening in the song. Not force an appreciation, per se, but really dive in and give it a lot of dedicated attention and see what happens.

But then look at how we talk about the new material. Who would want to sit down and take the time to unlock this stuff? To say nothing of the way we talk about the band, period.

I used to like MFS, God knows why.

Pendulum I suppose. I guess it's another off of LB I can tolerate.

Inside job = lol's

Inside Job is a bad song.

LB sucks.

. But LB live is pretty damn good, and that's a lot more than can be said for either of the shit songs against it here.

I’ve bored of Lightning Bolt and Future Days is the worst song this band has ever done.

Lightning Bolt is by far the best out of these. It's not that good but it could have been.

These are all bad but Sleeping By Myself is by far the worst.
LB, I guess.

God I don't even know.
Any one of these songs could end music altogether.

Sleeping By Myself doesn't offend me.

I actually like SBM too. I forgot about it. It's definitely better than Future Days and the mess that is LB the song.

I'm not voting here. These are all shit.

GSMF is the only one I remember.

I've always liked Amongst the Waves. These other two suck.

Amongst the Waves and it's not even close.
It won't win because you all have terrible taste. But it's CLEARLY Amongst the Waves.

I mean we're voting on songs from BS so let's not get too caught up on good taste here

Of the bad bunch UK is the better song.

Oh God UK is awful

aw huh

It's just the worst.

Im voting for amongst the waves.
Not a favorite or anything but better than these other 2.

Unthought Known is horrifying.

Amongst The Waves is a solid argument for why Trump should defund the National Endowment for the Arts

Three more shitty songs

These three can screw themselves. I abstain.

I loathe Got Some.

It's literally the worst song PJ has ever recorded

I like Got Some

same, and that's the absolute best thing I can say about any of these

I'm not even going to vote in this one

Gone can eat shit.

These songs all blow.
Voted for Wasted Reprise since it's only a minute long, but these all suck.

Wasted Reprise could have been a fantastic interlude on a good album. Unfortunately it's surrounded by shit.

I legitimately have no idea how any of these songs sound

Three shitty songs

If I never heard any of these songs again I wouldn't care

If I never heard any of these songs again I wouldn't care

I'm actually annoyed that I'm again reminded they exist.

Wow I honestly had no idea that Force Of Nature was at least somewhat liked around here

I'm not championing it, I just think the other two are a lot worse.

MYM. I think it and Got Some are the only songs from the last two albums I like.

Sirens makes me puke.

There's no satisfying choice here

I think this is the worst match so far. Three fairly crappy songs.
Voting for "Mind Your Manners" because at least it has a bit of an edge to it, and "we could something else" is slightly less embarrassing than "... whelmed by the grace".

Lol @sirens

What a collection of shit songs.

i just heard Sirens for the first time in a long while on my l-bolt listen. so many lovely moments. the harmonies at the end especially

Nice, I can't even get to its end.

These all suck too.

Parachutes is just total excrement.

Fuck WWS.

. The Fixer isn't the atrocity many make it out to be, but it does pretty much suck.

the fixer is fucking garbage

you'd have to have Alzheimer's to think The Fixer is anything more than complete shit.

Wow, big who cares.

Yellow Moon. But yeah, who cares?

Yellow Moon is a wet lump of shit

Swallowed Whole is literally the only good song on this record.

Yellow Moon is actually really enjoyable.

incorrect

Seriously, it's gross.

Mike should be kicked out of the band for pushing to include Yellow Moon.

Goddamn Swallowed Whole is really gonna win this. Gross.

I hate that song too.

And, on the off chance we find something positive to say we must remind everyone that this is PRAMG and

I'm grading pretty much everything in these matchups on a curve.

I’m sure an atmosphere like this, year after year, has no impact on how open and receptive we are in our approach to new music.

[Birds in Hell]

What if the last two records really are that bad?

[stip]

they probably would have gotten shit reviews, for starters, if they were the musical war crimes we make them out to be

[Jorge]

they probably would have gotten shit reviews, for starters

[Birds in Hell]

stip.

[Jorge]

[Jorge]

Holy fuck...

[stip]

I dont know guys - to most people they seem to sound like pretty typical pearl jam.

[stip]

What if the last two records really are that bad?

so how would we know if the last records really are that bad?

[LetMeSleep]

Stip, you're a treasure.