Song of the Moment: Mind Your Manners

[Birds in Hell]

A lot of my friends loved Yield but for whatever reason, didn't carry on buying or listening after that.

This was the case for me. I recall enjoying Yield, if not quite as much as I had No Code, but I drifted away from the band shortly after. The release of both Binaural and Riot Act didn't register with me at all.

[harmless]

A lot of my friends loved Yield but for whatever reason, didn't carry on buying or listening after that.

This was the case for me. I recall enjoying Yield, if not quite as much as I had No Code, but I drifted away from the band shortly after. The release of both Binaural and Riot Act didn't register with me at all.

I bought Binaural but I'd drifted since then, and only knew it was coming out like a week before. I bought it the first day it came out, in a really obscure record store in Slough. I had the distinct feeling even then that no one around me cared about PJ anymore and from now on it'd be a geek cult.

[Sgt. Crackpot]

Yield was a strange era for me. When it was released, PJ friends of mine described it as a 'fan' album and hailed it one of PJ's best albums. I didn't have the same view, to me it was their worst release so far. I only liked a couple of tracks (given to fly and MFC) and couldn't get into the majority of the album. I despised Wishlist and hated that it became a single.

I rarely listened to that album for a few years, but I still considered myself a fan, enjoyed their following albums and concerts. It was quite a few years later that I went back to Yield and decided to give it another try. Within the first couple of spins it suddenly made sense to me, I really got into the album and started to love it. It's now one of my favourite albums.

I'm not quite sure why it happened this way. My guess is that it wasn't the album I was expecting at the time, I was expecting another Vitalogy or perhaps a Vs/Ten. This album was completely different. So when I gave it a chance, and took it for what it was as a stand alone album, it worked very well.

[dimejinky99]

Yield was a strange era for me. When it was released, PJ friends of mine described it as a 'fan' album and hailed it one of PJ's best albums. I didn't have the same view, to me it was their worst release so far. I only liked a couple of tracks (given to fly and MFC) and couldn't get into the majority of the album. I despised Wishlist and hated that it became a single.

I rarely listened to that album for a few years, but I still considered myself a fan, enjoyed their following albums and concerts. It was quite a few years later that I went back to Yield and decided to give it another try. Within the first couple of spins it suddenly made sense to me, I really got into the album and started to love it. It's now one of my favourite albums.

I'm not quite sure why it happened this way. My guess is that it wasn't the album I was expecting at the time, I was expecting another Vitalogy or perhaps a Vs/Ten. This album was completely different. So when I gave it a chance, and took it for what it was as a stand alone album, it worked very well.

I love when that happens. I hope I have that moment of realisation with ST someday.

[balders]

great song great lyrics with some meaning reminds me of the vitalogy era witch is not a bad thing beats the shit out of the fixer

[LetMeSleep]

Yield was a strange era for me. When it was released, PJ friends of mine described it as a 'fan' album and hailed it one of PJ's best albums. I didn't have the same view, to me it was their worst release so far. I only liked a couple of tracks (given to fly and MFC) and couldn't get into the majority of the album. I despised Wishlist and hated that it became a single.

I rarely listened to that album for a few years, but I still considered myself a fan, enjoyed their following albums and concerts. It was quite a few years later that I went back to Yield and decided to give it another try. Within the first couple of spins it suddenly made sense to me, I really got into the album and started to love it. It's now one of my favourite albums.

I'm not quite sure why it happened this way. My guess is that it wasn't the album I was expecting at the time, I was expecting another Vitalogy or perhaps a Vs/Ten. This album was completely different. So when I gave it a chance, and took it for what it was as a stand alone album, it worked very well.

Similar here dude. I liked GTF but not Pilate. Didn't buy the album straight away but a friend got me a ticket to one of the Sydney shows. And I found it quite lacklustre. It was an okay show but it didn't really fire me up. I got the Wishlist single (completist here) and hated WList but loved BofJ live. Finally bought Yield to get that studio version. Yield is good but not great in my books.

[Heathen]

It's a generic rocker

As generic as it gets.

What does that signify, when people respond to your post by posting a picture of your avatar?

It either means your avatar is perfecty in line with your post, or that it contradicts your post. Obviously in this case in means: well duh someone with a Thelonious Monk avatar is not going to be excited by such a generic punk rock song.

[stip]

What does that signify, when people respond to your post by posting a picture of your avatar?

It's like LOOK AT YOURSELF. WHAT HAVE YOU BECOME?

I'm not sure really, but I've not done it before so it'll be a while before I discover the technique's best uses.

I'm so glad you asked this. I've always wondered but was afraid of being the one person who didn't know.

[stip]

What does that signify, when people respond to your post by posting a picture of your avatar?

It's like LOOK AT YOURSELF. WHAT HAVE YOU BECOME?

I'm not sure really, but I've not done it before so it'll be a while before I discover the technique's best uses.

I think the reality for me is that the band is just moving in a direction I don't want them to move in, and "Mind Your Manners" is the first time I've really found myself without the reserve of enthusiasm to follow them down the path. I've been very patient as they've moved further away from what I consider to be their best records, narrowed their scope of influence, and bereft their music of the kind of texture, nuance, and stylistic variation that I thought made their great albums great. During their greatest years I felt like you could peel back the outermost layer of their songs and find all kinds of flavors and juices bubbling underneath, and I'm not just talking about the production and sound of the records--I'm talking about the quirks and complexities of the compositions, and the care and precision of the arrangements. Since "S/T," what you see when you pull back that outermost layer is just a rusty frame. I'm not saying the music is meaningless but I do think that multi-dimensional element of their sound is pretty much gone--even on songs I really love like "Johnny Guitar" and "Parachutes," what you see is what you get. There was a mystery to their middle-period records, a sense that the band was as surprised by the stuff they were coming up with as the audience was, that just isn't there anymore.

To that end, "MYM" just sounds like more of the same to me. To me it sounds like it could have fit on "S/T" or "Backspacer" almost verbatim.

I guess what I wonder about is whether or not you think this is an issue with this song, or something indicative of the larger sound (which is impossible to know until the album comes out or we at least hear a few more songs--but you can guess). Do you not want pearl jam to write these kinds of songs? They've always thrown them on their albums. Or, does MYM not really stack up to the similar songs they've written (i.e.--you can imagine the same frame of this song, but filled out much more effectively and interestingly)?

[stip]

I think that's what I said, dime: not everything has to be deep and meaningful. But, the thing is, before S/T (and certainly before Backspacer), 99.9% of their material had been deep and meaningful. They asked us to make a massive adjustment to a new sound. Ed's new ambition seems to be to jump on the punk tradition and create the world's best 3 minute poprock song. And that's OK but it's not my thing. However, I understand it's a geek obsession for him, and I have my own, and every relationship needs two people to have the freedom to enjoy their separate pursuits. And when they meet, that's cool. As I said, I don't expect much of PJ's music to be deep and meaningful at all anymore, and yet here I am, still on board and on the same page... possibly in a different book, but the same page nonetheless.

i just wonder what caused that change in direction between Riot Act and ST. not just musically, but in other ways as well.

With the caveat that this is just a theory, I think it is three things, related:

The first is a desire for clarity. I don't think this can be overstated. The single most dominant artistic influence on S/T and Backspacer (S/T especially) is George W Bush. S/T reveals in the pretty savage joy politically active people on the left felt at his decline, and finally being able to say how horrible he is and have the majority of the country believe you. the album is an exercise in spleen venting, and that's not really going to foster a lot of nuance.

Similarly, Backspacer is animated by a sense of relief--the worst is over, and everything is going to be okay. I remember a few friends calling me the night Obama won reelection, convinced that the world was finally going to be okay. Ding Dong the witch is dead. And while I was obviously thrilled he won, I didn't think Obama was going to be a magic bullet since all of the structural problems with our politics remain, and their gravitational pull is going to distort anything Obama may have wanted to do (or the left wanted him to do). That perspective invites and encourages nuance. But Backspacer was written by people still bathing in millennial glow of no more bush.

On top of that those were both, for the most part albums that have answers, and pearl jam is more interesting when it is searching. Some people aren't wise enough to tell you how the world works, but they are perceptive or empathic enough to ask the questions you want asked in the right way and at the right time.


We'll see how the collapse of political optimism meshes with the newfound sense of centeredness that took root in Backspacer.

[@SkitchP]

We'll see how the collapse of political optimism meshes with the newfound sense of centeredness that took root in Backspacer.

[stip]

Did anyone quit because of/after Yield?

I was under the impression that the record and entire period was Pj at the height of their powers and enjoying popularity not seen since Vs?

I know many serious fans who started falling off with No Code and saw Yield not as a return to form but as a failed attempt to capture past glories. For most of them Binaural was where they finally got off, but it had the same effect for many of them that we might see with some people if they didn't like S/T, Backspacer, or Lightning Bolt.

[stip]

Best Pearl Jam single since "Given To Fly", no question. Anyone who thinks this is just another generic rocker needs to pull their head out of their ass. I don't give a shit if it sounds like The Offspring or The King's Nuts. It's fucking good.

It's a generic rocker, but a really good one. At this point I would be OK with an album full of generic everything... as long as they could get the good part right. Or they could something else.

I'm using this post as a jumping off point, not taking issue with Harmless.


When people say something sounds generic, what do they mean?

Derivative?
Familiar?
Uninspired?

It seems to me that something can be generic and still be good, provided it executes its familiar and derivative elements in an enjoyable way. MYM is probably derivative and is certainly familair, but it doesn't feel uninspired.

[harmless]

Best Pearl Jam single since "Given To Fly", no question. Anyone who thinks this is just another generic rocker needs to pull their head out of their ass. I don't give a shit if it sounds like The Offspring or The King's Nuts. It's fucking good.

It's a generic rocker, but a really good one. At this point I would be OK with an album full of generic everything... as long as they could get the good part right. Or they could something else.

I'm using this post as a jumping off point, not taking issue with Harmless.


When people say something sounds generic, what do they mean?

Derivative?
Familiar?
Uninspired?

It seems to me that something can be generic and still be good, provided it executes its familiar and derivative elements in an enjoyable way. MYM is probably derivative and is certainly familair, but it doesn't feel uninspired.

Personally:

Derivative -- yes.
Familiar -- not necessarily.
Uninspired -- not necessarily, and often no. Every generic song is clearly inspired by something, and that's often a musician's favourite musician. That's fine by me.

In this case, I mean that it's 'derivative' not as an insult but just because it clearly derives from other styles and doesn't have a great deal of Pearl Jam personality of its own. But you know what? It has more Pearl Jam personality than anything off the last two albums, so I'll take it. I don't mind that it borrows so much from recognisable styles, because it's just damn entertaining to listen to, addictive even; I'm liking a bunch of derivative music lately because it's making me happy and I've needed that. So if they can rise above this for any songs on the album, they'll likely get a 4 or even a 5 from me. This one's got a 3.5, because it does a very good job of doing the job it's doing.

[Kevin Davis]

I guess what I wonder about is whether or not you think this is an issue with this song, or something indicative of the larger sound (which is impossible to know until the album comes out or we at least hear a few more songs--but you can guess). Do you not want pearl jam to write these kinds of songs? They've always thrown them on their albums. Or, does MYM not really stack up to the similar songs they've written (i.e.--you can imagine the same frame of this song, but filled out much more effectively and interestingly)?

It's tough to say. I've never really taken issue with these kinds of songs in the past so I can understand where it would seem odd that I would start taking issue with them now, but I think I've just reached my saturation point with this particular facet of their sound, and how prevalent it's become in their repertoire. I'm not talking about the punk sound, necessarily, more the overall approach of the last few records--just that unsubtle modern rock sound, the same unchanging distorted guitar tones and the same one-dimensional sonic presentation. But no, I don't think "MYM" really stacks up to similar songs they've written--in my mind, its closest precedents are "Comatose" and "Ole," though "MYM" lacks the cool dissonances of the former and doesn't get the same free pass that I gave the latter for being a one-off novelty. But I also accept that that impression might just be the result of my own fatigue with where they've taken their music lately, even though I really do think that bridge sounds like the sort of sugary pop-punk that Eddie Vedder has mocked mercilessly in the past.

I'm not ready to make any unreasonable assumptions about what the album might be, and my disappointment with the single really is just that. But it has been one of the rare instances in Pearl Jam's catalog where virtually everything about a song has just conspired to leave the foulest taste in my mouth possible. Just a total miss for me.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Yield was a strange era for me. When it was released, PJ friends of mine described it as a 'fan' album and hailed it one of PJ's best albums. I didn't have the same view, to me it was their worst release so far. I only liked a couple of tracks (given to fly and MFC) and couldn't get into the majority of the album. I despised Wishlist and hated that it became a single.

I rarely listened to that album for a few years, but I still considered myself a fan, enjoyed their following albums and concerts. It was quite a few years later that I went back to Yield and decided to give it another try. Within the first couple of spins it suddenly made sense to me, I really got into the album and started to love it. It's now one of my favourite albums.

I'm not quite sure why it happened this way. My guess is that it wasn't the album I was expecting at the time, I was expecting another Vitalogy or perhaps a Vs/Ten. This album was completely different. So when I gave it a chance, and took it for what it was as a stand alone album, it worked very well.

I love when that happens. I hope I have that moment of realisation with ST someday.

For me that album was binaural, i had loved every song in their catalog up until the point i hit play and hard what they came up with. I had gotten the nais single and liked it and insignificance enough that i listened to mostly just those 2 songs before the album came out, and i was kinda unpleasantly surprised by what i was hearing, i was expecting something to grab me right away in each song and i just didn't get it in either breakerfall or gods dice, the first part that did grab me was a guitar part in evacuation, then light years was great for me, nais was next and i already liked it, thin air was enjoyable and i already liked insignificance, but after that it was back to stuff that nothing really grabbed me. I didn't put this one away, i kept listening to it, saw them play a good chunk of the album live which helped a lot, but it was still over a year before i started to like it as a pearl jam album, and in the many years since it has grown to be my #3 behind no code and yield.

[harmless]

Yield was a strange era for me. When it was released, PJ friends of mine described it as a 'fan' album and hailed it one of PJ's best albums. I didn't have the same view, to me it was their worst release so far. I only liked a couple of tracks (given to fly and MFC) and couldn't get into the majority of the album. I despised Wishlist and hated that it became a single.

I rarely listened to that album for a few years, but I still considered myself a fan, enjoyed their following albums and concerts. It was quite a few years later that I went back to Yield and decided to give it another try. Within the first couple of spins it suddenly made sense to me, I really got into the album and started to love it. It's now one of my favourite albums.

I'm not quite sure why it happened this way. My guess is that it wasn't the album I was expecting at the time, I was expecting another Vitalogy or perhaps a Vs/Ten. This album was completely different. So when I gave it a chance, and took it for what it was as a stand alone album, it worked very well.

I love when that happens. I hope I have that moment of realisation with ST someday.

For me that album was binaural, i had loved every song in their catalog up until the point i hit play and hard what they came up with. I had gotten the nais single and liked it and insignificance enough that i listened to mostly just those 2 songs before the album came out, and i was kinda unpleasantly surprised by what i was hearing, i was expecting something to grab me right away in each song and i just didn't get it in either breakerfall or gods dice, the first part that did grab me was a guitar part in evacuation, then light years was great for me, nais was next and i already liked it, thin air was enjoyable and i already liked insignificance, but after that it was back to stuff that nothing really grabbed me. I didn't put this one away, i kept listening to it, saw them play a good chunk of the album live which helped a lot, but it was still over a year before i started to like it as a pearl jam album, and in the many years since it has grown to be my #3 behind no code and yield.

I had almost the same reactions to Binaural initially. I was devastatingly disappointed.

[Birds in Hell]

When I finally caught up with the band again, I thought every song on Binaural was terrible except for Evacuation.

[Strat]

Listening to this now.

Yea, Ed. My favorite voice ever and that wont ever change no matter how breathy he gets live these days.

This is like Vocal Acrobatics.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Best Pearl Jam single since "Given To Fly", no question. Anyone who thinks this is just another generic rocker needs to pull their head out of their ass. I don't give a shit if it sounds like The Offspring or The King's Nuts. It's fucking good.

Some people are just afraid to get hurt again.

This song can't hurt anyone, its really good. There is a possibility the whole album will suck, but that's still 3 months away

I think this song lowers the possibility of the album sucking, so people don't want to admit that and open their hearts.

That makes sense
Though i don't think pj will hurt them again, i think they have learned their lesson

What makes you say that Doc? I think they will go on doing whatever the fuck they want and if we end up liking it, so be it kind of thing....

I was mostly trying to set it up for someone to say that they will mind their manners, but it seems that i would have been the only one to find that funny
But i do think this song is great, and i don't think their lead single ever turns out to be the best on the album, so if that holds true then i know there will be a few songs that i find to be even better then MYM and that will be a good start to a great album. It really just comes down to me being really hopeful, and aside from binaural which i just posted about, i have loved all of the albums right out of the gate and if they are low on my list or ranking it is because they don't hold up with me, but Im almost positive i will love this album for a good while and ill start to rank it more accurately after a year or so.