Song of the Moment: Mind Your Manners

[Noonie]

What. How does this have almost a million views on YouTube already?
is it going viral or something

[dimejinky99]

Was just about to post that.

Streaming is taking off.

[Mine]

Eddie Vedder should just record himself doing karaoke versions of his favorite songs. It'd be a huge hit.

Incidentally, this is why I go on so much about Dave A. He was anything but 'generic', and Matt is pretty much as generic as it's possible to be as a rich musician. Now there is one member in PJ with some personality, and it's Ed. I'm sure they have plenty of personality as people, but where is it??? And I think a lot of people have been asking this of PJ even in reference to what we fans think of as their best albums. I've heard plenty of people call PJ generic, and long before Backspacer. So I'm not sure it's an issue you can just pin on new material. Or at least, you can but it's a subjective judgment.

And everyone knows how much I hate subjective judgments. They're morally wrong.

The thing is, at least in my part of the word, people tend to gravitate either to the very mainstream music or to some sub sub sub genre of whatever alternative genre. Pearl Jam is neither and in a way generic. To me personally it's a good thing because if they were some sort of punk/metal i'd be bored with them in a couple of months. But what is your issue with Matt's drums is part of my broader main issue with them - their song writing begs for better production. And by that i mean more subtlety in the arrangements and top notch mixing and mastering that doesn't fuck it all up.

You got me thinking about Dave A vs Matt though and you have a point in the sense that Matt does sound generic. In retrospect i believe that PJ wasn't the band for Dave because they'd never stick to something that would fit to his talents. I don't agree that the drummers played that huge of a role though. My favourite albums of theirs are No Code and Vitalogy and to me they sound very related - and i'm aware hardly anybody will agree with me on this. The difference in the drumming while obvious isn't something that i perceive as dominant in how i perceive the albums.

The drumming being that big of a deal is huge speculation on my part, but I've managed to convince myself. I'm just saying that Dave A, in my opinion, contributed to a sound that a lot of people flocked towards. That's all really. It's a subconscious thing so it wouldn't warrant any survey analysis. I agree with everything else you say here really. Production, yes. Would I dislike Matt on this song so much if his drums *sounded* different? Probably not. Also to do with PJ really always having been generic, so when that accusation is thrown at them now it's just weird. It seems to me that it's often when they borrow from a new (for PJ) style that an individual is particularly knowledgeable and precious about, so for example punk. That's when the accusations come to the fore, and that's always been true, hence my relative dislike of Matt but only really as a drummer. As a listener, he's enjoyable enough.

There's another aspect to the drummer issue. Drummers are the least valued part of band and it's a shame. Most people barely go past the singer to the guitar players plus the way music is mixed and mastered this days most of what drums can do to a song gets lost by the time it reaches the public. It's a shame really because when you stumble upon a well mixed and mastered recording you usually can here the huge part the drums play in the sense of space in a song.

My dad used to say to me 'Is that Pearl Jam you're playing? Ah yes, course it is, the drums are loud in the mix.' He knew that was a huge factor for me. It helped that Dave's snare was cranked up to 11 as well; everyone here knows that I think Matt's snares are pretty much always too 'fat' for my taste.

I wonder how much of it is a production issue especially considering how odd their choices are in the departement.

MYM for instance sounds like an emulation of their live sound which works for them better than s/t and partially BS's sound but they may have exageretad with making it sound more muffled then it needs to be. I'm not sure if the vocal is low in the mix or it's a side effect of the EQ. Speaking of the vocal there are some interesting effects achieved by layering vocal takes each sung in a slightly different way.

[harmless]

Eddie Vedder should just record himself doing karaoke versions of his favorite songs. It'd be a huge hit.

Incidentally, this is why I go on so much about Dave A. He was anything but 'generic', and Matt is pretty much as generic as it's possible to be as a rich musician. Now there is one member in PJ with some personality, and it's Ed. I'm sure they have plenty of personality as people, but where is it??? And I think a lot of people have been asking this of PJ even in reference to what we fans think of as their best albums. I've heard plenty of people call PJ generic, and long before Backspacer. So I'm not sure it's an issue you can just pin on new material. Or at least, you can but it's a subjective judgment.

And everyone knows how much I hate subjective judgments. They're morally wrong.

The thing is, at least in my part of the word, people tend to gravitate either to the very mainstream music or to some sub sub sub genre of whatever alternative genre. Pearl Jam is neither and in a way generic. To me personally it's a good thing because if they were some sort of punk/metal i'd be bored with them in a couple of months. But what is your issue with Matt's drums is part of my broader main issue with them - their song writing begs for better production. And by that i mean more subtlety in the arrangements and top notch mixing and mastering that doesn't fuck it all up.

You got me thinking about Dave A vs Matt though and you have a point in the sense that Matt does sound generic. In retrospect i believe that PJ wasn't the band for Dave because they'd never stick to something that would fit to his talents. I don't agree that the drummers played that huge of a role though. My favourite albums of theirs are No Code and Vitalogy and to me they sound very related - and i'm aware hardly anybody will agree with me on this. The difference in the drumming while obvious isn't something that i perceive as dominant in how i perceive the albums.

The drumming being that big of a deal is huge speculation on my part, but I've managed to convince myself. I'm just saying that Dave A, in my opinion, contributed to a sound that a lot of people flocked towards. That's all really. It's a subconscious thing so it wouldn't warrant any survey analysis. I agree with everything else you say here really. Production, yes. Would I dislike Matt on this song so much if his drums *sounded* different? Probably not. Also to do with PJ really always having been generic, so when that accusation is thrown at them now it's just weird. It seems to me that it's often when they borrow from a new (for PJ) style that an individual is particularly knowledgeable and precious about, so for example punk. That's when the accusations come to the fore, and that's always been true, hence my relative dislike of Matt but only really as a drummer. As a listener, he's enjoyable enough.

There's another aspect to the drummer issue. Drummers are the least valued part of band and it's a shame. Most people barely go past the singer to the guitar players plus the way music is mixed and mastered this days most of what drums can do to a song gets lost by the time it reaches the public. It's a shame really because when you stumble upon a well mixed and mastered recording you usually can here the huge part the drums play in the sense of space in a song.

My dad used to say to me 'Is that Pearl Jam you're playing? Ah yes, course it is, the drums are loud in the mix.' He knew that was a huge factor for me. It helped that Dave's snare was cranked up to 11 as well; everyone here knows that I think Matt's snares are pretty much always too 'fat' for my taste.

I wonder how much of it is a production issue especially considering how odd their choices are in the departement.

MYM for instance sounds like an emulation of their live sound which works for them better than s/t and partially BS's sound but they may have exageretad with making it sound more muffled then it needs to be. I'm not sure if the vocal is low in the mix or it's a side effect of the EQ. Speaking of the vocal there are some interesting effects achieved by layering vocal takes each sung in a slightly different way.

Agreed, the snare definitely sounds 'muffled'. I usually hate the way Matt's drums sound live. I went to see them once in London and they sounded great but that might've just been because I was there... if not, it was unusual. I quite like the vocals being slightly low in the mix here, I think any higher and it would've made the song sound more poppy. I too like the effects and layering on the vocals. Especially that kickass outro.

[BurtReynolds]

I like the way he sings the "mind your manners" bit. he could have went goofier with it but I'm glad he didn't. he sounds a little more aggressive and lower than hehas been lately.

[McParadigm]

I like the bass during that whole bit. It gives the song a sense of being a little more on the edge of collapse than it actually is.

[gardenparty]

I like the bass during that whole bit. It gives the song a sense of being a little more on the edge of collapse than it actually is.

It's very rare for Jeff to be the issue with a song. So consistent in giving what is needed

[dimejinky99]

He's singing in his range again. Which is great.

Hail hail is a fucking great PJ rock song and its not remotely a stretch for him. Hopefully he's getting back to that. I really hope so.

[dimejinky99]

My better half feels strongly about MYM
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w98/ ... C3C5C1.mp4

[stip]

what is he cooking?

[Lament]

what is he cooking?

Guns & Rosaries, obviously.

[Boing]

It's been driving me crazy, Matts drumming in this song sounds familier.
Then I found out why that is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX9vj1D02_U about the 1 minute 14 mark

[BurtReynolds]

He's singing in his range again. Which is great.

Hail hail is a fucking great PJ rock song and its not remotely a stretch for him. Hopefully he's getting back to that. I really hope so.

yeah you're right.

[harmless]

It's been driving me crazy, Matts drumming in this song sounds familier.
Then I found out why that is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX9vj1D02_U about the 1 minute 14 mark

I hate that he'd show off on a Youtube video and hold back in PJ. It's not the greatest drum video I've seen but there's subtlety and nuance in that which he hardly shows in PJ, and certainly not in MYM. That simple boring fill he does right at the end is basically the fill he does all the way through MYM. The others are much more interesting here.

[digster]

Incidentally, this is why I go on so much about Dave A. He was anything but 'generic', and Matt is pretty much as generic as it's possible to be as a rich musician. Now there is one member in PJ with some personality, and it's Ed. I'm sure they have plenty of personality as people, but where is it??? And I think a lot of people have been asking this of PJ even in reference to what we fans think of as their best albums. I've heard plenty of people call PJ generic, and long before Backspacer. So I'm not sure it's an issue you can just pin on new material. Or at least, you can but it's a subjective judgment.

And everyone knows how much I hate subjective judgments. They're morally wrong.

I don't think at all that they've always been a generic band with a very identifiable voice at the front. If you go back through their records, I think even up Binaural and in some cases past it, there are some pretty nifty songwriting tricks going on. I think the one thing that separates them from a band like R.E.M. is that, besides Ed's voice, there is never one constant always in a song. With R.E.M. for example, I'd say the R.E.M. sound is defined by Peter Buck's style of playing and use of arpeggios. Even in some of their stuff that wanders off the beaten path, it's very often there. Really the only thing in PJ that is comparable is Eddie's voice. The instrumentalists don't really have a trademark they intuitively go to in every song. So I don't know if it's that they were generic, but there's no signature instrumental sound that they have that could immediately alert you to who's playing the song.

I would say that while in the past, they'd work to make the genres come to them, it seems that they are more often going to the genres. That's probably an oversimplification, and likely not without exceptions, but Mind Your Manners, despite the fact that I like it, sounds more like them attempting to write a song in a particular style rather than having that style inform the song they're writing.

[@SkitchP]

what is he cooking?

Guns & Rosaries, obviously.

man, this would have been a great post if you hadn't spelled it out.

[BurtReynolds]

That vimeo vid really does make this song 10x better.

[Lament]

man, this would have been a great post if you hadn't spelled it out.

Yeah, in retrospect I fucked that one up pretty badly with that. I wonder if this feeling I have right now is the same one the band gets when they look at the last-second changes to the Binaural tracklisting.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Best pj video in a long time right there

[Lament]

Best pj video ever

FTFY.