A thread for Master Debaters: Who do you take in his Prime?

[Bammer]

Shawn Kemp or Blake Griffin?

Debate.

Then suggest a new debate. Such as Isiah Thomas or John Stockton.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Are we talking basketball or fathering children?

[Monkey_Driven]

I'd take Griffin by a hair if both players are healthy. His passing/playmaking ability trumps the pure athleticism of Kemp.

[verb_to_trust]

Kemp was more than just dunks, you idiots.

[Monkey_Driven]

Kemp was more than just dunks, you idiots.

He also got really fat for no reason than just being bored/lazy. Had to downgrade him some points for that.

[numbers]

Kemp all day not even close.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Yeah, Kemp. Also, Kemp had a drive that I just don't see in Griffin.

[verb_to_trust]

Kemp was more than just dunks, you idiots.

He also got really fat for no reason than just being bored/lazy. Had to downgrade him some points for that.

How about Blake being constantly injured and breaking his hand on that equipment manager/secret gay lover guys face? Blake has already peaked and Kemp made a Finals. Would have won it too if it weren't for the Goat.

[Monkey_Driven]

Kemp was more than just dunks, you idiots.

He also got really fat for no reason than just being bored/lazy. Had to downgrade him some points for that.

How about Blake being constantly injured and breaking his hand on that equipment manager/secret gay lover guys face? Blake has already peaked and Kemp made a Finals. Would have won it too if it weren't for the Goat.

True, true. I think Griffin is a more well rounded player, but you're probably right, Kemp's prime was a little better. Plus, dunkz.

[run2death]

Kemp. He had a good 10-year run where he probably averaged 18/10. Griffin can be spectacular, but has only had like 2 or 3 full seasons. Griffin wouldn't last 2 games in the NBA Kemp played in.

I'll take Zeke over Stockton all day.

[PHATJ]

Shawn Kemp was fucking BOSS.

[run2death]

I think you can make a case for Zeke being the toughest guard in NBA history. Dude took a fucking beating nightly and played through brutal injuries.

Jordan wouldn't be the player he was without Zeke.

Edit: I think I'm gonna have to watch the Pistons 30 for 30 again. THAT was how basketball should be played.

[run2death]

Hakeem vs. Shaq?

I don't think it's that close.

Hakeem's elite defense and athleticism clearly puts him on top, but I'm guessing the average NBA fan would think I'm nuts.

As I said in another thread, Hakeem had 2 of the best playoff runs in NBA history. I know those runs get glossed over because they were during Jordan's first retirement, but he was just unstoppable and exuded a kind of otherworldly grace and athleticism that was just beautiful.

[Monkey_Driven]

Hakeem vs. Shaq?

I don't think it's that close.

Hakeem's elite defense and athleticism clearly puts him on top, but I'm guessing the average NBA fan would think I'm nuts.

As I said in another thread, Hakeem had 2 of the best playoff runs in NBA history. I know those runs get glossed over because they were during Jordan's first retirement, but he was just unstoppable and exuded a kind of otherworldly grace and athleticism that was just beautiful.

Depends on if it Shaq is in shape or not.

[run2death]

Even in-shape Shaq was a joke at defending the pick and roll.

I know Phil talks extensively in one of his books about Shaq's D being those Lakers teams biggest liability.

Meanwhile, Hakeem was two-time Defensive Player of the Year.

[Monkey_Driven]

Didn't Phil trash everyone in his books?

I'd take Hakeem. He would be great in today's NBA too.

[@SkitchP]

Kemp
Zeke and it's not close
Hakeem

[run2death]

Even in today's NBA, I have a hard time seeing Stockton's assist records ever being touch. It's basically the equivalent of Rice's receiving stats.

Yet, he would struggle to get into my top 10 all-time PG list.

His actual value as a player was sooooo much less than his numbers. I realize that's got to do with his longevity and the kind of offense those Jazz teams ran, but still...

[Monkey_Driven]

Even in today's NBA, I have a hard time seeing Stockton's assist records ever being touch. It's basically the equivalent of Rice's receiving stats.

Yet, he would struggle to get into my top 10 all-time PG list.

His actual value as a player was sooooo much less than his numbers. I realize that's got to do with his longevity and the kind of offense those Jazz teams ran, but still...

He wore short shorts though, so he's good in my book.

[numbers]

Hakeem vs. Shaq?

I don't think it's that close.

Hakeem's elite defense and athleticism clearly puts him on top, but I'm guessing the average NBA fan would think I'm nuts.

As I said in another thread, Hakeem had 2 of the best playoff runs in NBA history. I know those runs get glossed over because they were during Jordan's first retirement, but he was just unstoppable and exuded a kind of otherworldly grace and athleticism that was just beautiful.

That's a tough one, Shaq seems like the obvious choice, but Hakeem was sooooo good for those mid-90s Rockets teams, in addition to being damn good before that too. Probably go with Shaq just because he turned 3 different franchises into championship teams overnight, but man I really liked those Rockets teams.