HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)

[Norah]

Shireen it is!

[stip]

i was genuinely stunned by the conclusion of the faith militant storyline

Me too. Because it didn't go anywhere.

Can't agree on that. It changed everything in King's Landing.

Until it didn't because they all died at once.

Wiping out the principal ally of the Lannister's in the process, causing Tommen's suicide, and putting Cersci on the iron throne. That whole story arc was about Cersei, and reinforced and pushed even further both the strengths and weaknesses of her character going into the final act of the series.

To me Cersei's story with the faith militant didn't really amount to much. It was a minor inconvenience for her and now she's removed her (local) enemies and can go back to being psycho queen again. Once again, the show-runners have removed consequences and real adversity from the story. If she had to face trial at least it might have knocked her down a peg, and forced her to face some reckoning even if she came out victorious, but nope, she just got them all in the same room and let the deus ex wildfirina take care of her problems.

i cant believe ive missed out on several years of arguing about this with you...


im at the pool w the kids. more later

[Norah]

Yeah yeah, the old "I'm at the pool with the kids" cop out.

[stip]

the afternoon is long and full of terrors

[@SkitchP]

at least they're white.

[malice]

Shireen it is!

she's dead too, pete

[Norah]

Shireen it is!

she's dead too, pete

thanks for explaining the joke, mary

[malice]

Shireen it is!

she's dead too, pete

I don't think there's anyone left from the Stannis/Robert line except the bastard son they were going to sacrifice, correct?

[stip]

i was genuinely stunned by the conclusion of the faith militant storyline

Me too. Because it didn't go anywhere.

Can't agree on that. It changed everything in King's Landing.

Until it didn't because they all died at once.

Wiping out the principal ally of the Lannister's in the process, causing Tommen's suicide, and putting Cersci on the iron throne. That whole story arc was about Cersei, and reinforced and pushed even further both the strengths and weaknesses of her character going into the final act of the series.

To me Cersei's story with the faith militant didn't really amount to much. It was a minor inconvenience for her and now she's removed her (local) enemies and can go back to being psycho queen again. Once again, the show-runners have removed consequences and real adversity from the story. If she had to face trial at least it might have knocked her down a peg, and forced her to face some reckoning even if she came out victorious, but nope, she just got them all in the same room and let the deus ex wildfirina take care of her problems.

Cersei did face consequences. Throughout this arc she was humbled and humiliated, she was removed from the small council, and alienated from her son and most of her remaining family. . The actions taken against her expose the weakness at the heart of House Lannister without Tywin in charge. She actually became a quasi sympathetic figure, to the point that you had to remind yourself that she brought this among herself. But, at the end of this arc what we learn is that, ultimately, Cersei learned nothing. She is a character beyond redemption, and of all the major character arcs, she is the only unambiguous villain (which puts Jamie in an interesting place).

It also reinforced that every time Cersi acts, the people she cares about the most are harmed. The loss of Jamie's hand, the death of her father, and the death of all three children are all ultimately traced back to Cersei and the decisions she has made. And rather than teach her doubt or skepticism each incident only hardens her further.

While hers is a calculated cruelty, rather than madness, this arc confirms Cersei's place in the story as the incarnation of the Aerys Targeryen (it will be fascinating if in the end Jamie kills her as well). The wildfire is not a deus ex machina since the show established that it exists, that Cersei has stockpiled it before, and also foreshadows its use on the people of Kings Landing in the story of Aerys Targeryen (except Cersei goes further than he ever did).

This was really the perfect way to end this arc.

[malice]

Actually, while the destruction of the sept and tommens walk out the window were certainly shock excitement for the show, i also thought it was YET ANOTHER tremendous waste of time because the storyline was quite long but all ended in absolutely nothing, like with Stannis

[Norah]

How was the pool?

[stip]

it's unheated but not so bad today. It needed to be a bit sunnier.

[Anders]

Actually, while the destruction of the sept and tommens walk out the window were certainly shock excitement for the show, i also thought it was YET ANOTHER tremendous waste of time because the storyline was quite long but all ended in absolutely nothing, like with Stannis

Funny you said that just after Stip explained why it did.

[malice]

Actually, while the destruction of the sept and tommens walk out the window were certainly shock excitement for the show, i also thought it was YET ANOTHER tremendous waste of time because the storyline was quite long but all ended in absolutely nothing, like with Stannis

Funny you said that just after Stip explained why it did.

to be fair, we posted at the same time or near enough, i didn't see his post until after I posted. I read his interpretation, and it has merit, but i don't appreciate how the show has this habit of extended storylines that dont have resolutions except everyone dies. If, as stip says, it's more about how cersie gets defined, or redefined as a character, i guess that's fine, but im left feeling unsatisfied by the journey?

[Monkey_Driven]

Yes, I liked how it played out for Cersei's arc but the time spent on the High Sparrow/Tyrells seemed moot. Wish there was more time devoted to Jon post resurrection.

[Anders]

Actually, while the destruction of the sept and tommens walk out the window were certainly shock excitement for the show, i also thought it was YET ANOTHER tremendous waste of time because the storyline was quite long but all ended in absolutely nothing, like with Stannis

Funny you said that just after Stip explained why it did.

to be fair, we posted at the same time or near enough, i didn't see his post until after I posted. I read his interpretation, and it has merit, but i don't appreciate how the show has this habit of extended storylines that dont have resolutions except everyone dies. If, as stip says, it's more about how cersie gets defined, or redefined as a character, i guess that's fine, but im left feeling unsatisfied by the journey?

That's fair. I can certainly respect that. I on the other hand had a tear in an eye at the end of the season. Ten out ten.

I think the Cersei story changed her, changed King's Landing and all the characters there, showed what she can do in the most powerful way, and it will eventually lead to her brutal death.

[Norah]

Actually, while the destruction of the sept and tommens walk out the window were certainly shock excitement for the show, i also thought it was YET ANOTHER tremendous waste of time because the storyline was quite long but all ended in absolutely nothing, like with Stannis

Funny you said that just after Stip explained why it did.

to be fair, we posted at the same time or near enough, i didn't see his post until after I posted. I read his interpretation, and it has merit, but i don't appreciate how the show has this habit of extended storylines that dont have resolutions except everyone dies. If, as stip says, it's more about how cersie gets defined, or redefined as a character, i guess that's fine, but im left feeling unsatisfied by the journey?

Also, I don't see how much it redefines her. She was presented with adversity and it looked like she might have to go through some transformative reckoning to face it. Instead she just blows them all up. It wasn't just the Faith Militant too, it was the Tyrels that were extinguished. All it did was streamline everything so in the endgame she only has Dany to deal with in the south of the neck.

[Simple Torture]

I'd deal with Dany south of the neck, if you know what I mean! :zing: :high-five:

Re-watching Season 5 now, and it's crazy how bad Cersei fucks up--everything with the Faith was of her own doing. I think the readings of the end of Season 6 that people are throwing out here--that it was a quick clean-up and that it was a demonstration of her most important character traits/flaws--aren't mutually exclusive. So I don't know if it's mutually exclusive.

[Simple Torture]

Shireen it is!

she's dead too, pete

I don't think there's anyone left from the Stannis/Robert line except the bastard son they were going to sacrifice, correct?

In the show world, not really. But--if the relations from the book are assumed to be the same as the novels--the answer may surprise you: it's Jon Snow. Robert's grandmother--Rhaelle Targaryen--was the aunt of The Mad King, making him Rhaegar/Dany's great-aunt, and relatively close in the blood line to Jon. There's some talk that Robert's great-grandfather may have had another daughter, but I still think Jon would be closer.

[Norah]

Shireen it is!

she's dead too, pete

I don't think there's anyone left from the Stannis/Robert line except the bastard son they were going to sacrifice, correct?

In the show world, not really. But--if the relations from the book are assumed to be the same as the novels--the answer may surprise you: it's Jon Snow. Robert's grandmother--Rhaelle Targaryen--was the aunt of The Mad King, making him Rhaegar/Dany's great-aunt, and relatively close in the blood line to Jon. There's some talk that Robert's great-grandfather may have had another daughter, but I still think Jon would be closer.

Jon's not trueborn though.