HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)

[Norah]

How did I forget about Dolorous Edd?

[Mecca]

How did I forget about Dolorous Edd?

"i'm not very memorable anyway" - Edd, probably

[Bammer]

Slater
Screech
Lisa
Zach
Belding
Kelly
Tori
Jessie

[BurtReynolds]

[Anders]

Book povs:

Tyrion
Arya
Eddard
Jon
Jaime
Davos
Samwell
Catelyn
Daenarys
Cersei
Sansa
Brienne

Spoiler: show

Victarion
Barristan
Arys
Bran
Theon
Connington
Quentyn
Arianne
Areo
Melisandre
Asha
Aeron

For the show it's still similar:
Tyrion
Eddard
Jon
Arya
Oberyn
Jaime
Davos
Robb
Sansa
Bran
Daenarys
Brienne
Sandor
Cersei

Spoiler: show

Barristan
Catelyn
Olenna
Margaery
Bronn
Tormund
Edd
Littlefinger
Robert
Meera
Hodor
Theon
Stannis
Varys
]Tyene
Missandei
Ygritte
Jorah
Shae
Podrick
Mance
Loras
Melisandre
Oshag
Grey Worm
Talisa
Tommen
Gilly
Jojen
Myrcella
Gendry
Beric
Joffrey
Khal Drogo
Ellaria
Daario
Gregor
High Priest
Ramsay
Ilyn

[Mecca]

Best post regarding Sheerangate yet

[Simple Torture]

Two things:

First, there was a trailer shown at Comic Con that was leaked online last night. Apparently, its scenes are from Episodes 2+3, and it's mostly new footage: do not watch if you want to go into those episodes completely cold.

Spoiler: show

Second: I just heard this theory for the first time the other day, although it has been floating around for a more than a year. It relates to the words that Lyanna whispered to Ned at the Tower of Joy that we can't hear:

Spoiler: show

Using this post on Reddit as a jumping-off point, the theory is that after Lyanna says "His name is...[mubles]" that it's a three-syllable word beginning with a "J." The idea is that Jon's name is Jaehaerys, named after two former Targaryen kings known to be peace-makers and protectors of the realm (Jaehaerys I and Jaehaerys II; J-II was the Mad King's father and Maester Aemon's nephew). This would make since dramatically, as Jon will--at least it seems--be involved in uniting the realm and bringing on a new reign of peace. It's also an interesting tidbit that hints (but even if it were true, it wouldn't confirm) that Jon, née Jaehaerys, is trueborn--it'd make much more since for a trueborn son to be named after a legendary Targ than for that name to be given to a bastard.

[epilogue]

So, ST, are you saying in your second spoiler that

Spoiler: show

you see that as possible evidence that R & L were married?

[Simple Torture]

So, ST, are you saying in your second spoiler that

Spoiler: show

you see that as possible evidence that R & L were married?

Yeah.

Spoiler: show

There are all sorts of little hints scattered around, but nothing that confirms it. Like: it'd make sense that the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy would be protecting a member of the royal family (Jon), but they could've just been there under Rhaegar's orders. And Rhaegar is painted as the total opposite of his father in so many ways, it doesn't really jive that he'd have a mistress on the side (but since polygamy was known in the Targaryen line, it would be above-board, technically, if they were married). But, again, not confirmed. Also noteworthy: Rhaegar was a huge believer in the prophesy of The Prince That Was Promised, and so was Jaehaerys II, who forced his children (the Mad King and his sister) to marry in order to help it be fulfilled. So it wouldn't be shocking if Rhaegar gave Jon that name as a tribute.

[epilogue]

Interesting. So, maybe this sounds like a snarky question, my apologies if it does but...

Spoiler: show

Does it really matter? What difference does it make if they were married? Other than Jon being true born or pure born or thoroughbred or whatever, does it change anything in the story?

Again, sorry if that's snarky. I don't mean it to be. I'm really just curious.

[Simple Torture]

Not snarky:

Spoiler: show

The way power works in the show right now (i.e., "Power resides where men believe it to reside"), it doesn't matter all that much. But, I think it's important to remember how Dany always describes her claim to the Iron Throne: she says it's her birthright, that she should be queen because of who she is. If she really, really believes that strongly in the Targaryen's line of succession, then she would have to let Jon climb the throne if it can be proven who he is and if he's trueborn. That'd be an interesting turn for Dany's character: she's gone through so much to get to where she is, would she be willing to give it all up because her nephew popped up out of nowhere?

[epilogue]

Not snarky:

Spoiler: show

The way power works in the show right now (i.e., "Power resides where men believe it to reside"), it doesn't matter all that much. But, I think it's important to remember how Dany always describes her claim to the Iron Throne: she says it's her birthright, that she should be queen because of who she is. If she really, really believes that strongly in the Targaryen's line of succession, then she would have to let Jon climb the throne if it can be proven who he is and if he's trueborn. That'd be an interesting turn for Dany's character: she's gone through so much to get to where she is, would she be willing to give it all up because her nephew popped up out of nowhere?

Ah. Thant makes sense. Except

Spoiler: show

Why does Jon have more of a right than Dany if they're both trueborn? Because he's male?

But also

Spoiler: show

I hadn't even considered what would happen if the show came down to a showdown between Dany and Jon. How cool would it be if the big massive war for Westeros ended in like the third or fourth episode next season and the final two or three episodes were just a mini show down battle between them? That could be fucking unreal!

[Anders]

Spoiler: show

Because he is the son of the crown prince. That's how royalty works.

[epilogue]

Spoiler: show

Because he is the son of the crown prince. That's how royalty works.

Fucking duh! Sorry. That was a stupid question on my part. All this stuff swims right past me sometimes. Thank you.

Spoiler: show

I get confused on all the bloodline stuff, especially if I tune out for a while. And I haven't thought about GoT in a year. For some reason I thought Dany and Jon would be brother/sister, not Aunt/Nephew. I got it all straight now.

[Simple Torture]

Spoiler: show

Because he is the son of the crown prince. That's how royalty works.

Fucking duh! Sorry. That was a stupid question on my part. All this stuff swims right past me sometimes. Thank you.

Spoiler: show

I get confused on all the bloodline stuff, especially if I tune out for a while. And I haven't thought about GoT in a year. For some reason I thought Dany and Jon would be brother/sister, not Aunt/Nephew. I got it all straight now.

Yeah, it can be confusing, especially since lots of this is emphasized over and over in the books but has been mentioned once--if at all--in the show.

Spoiler: show

Anders is right, though: Jon's the oldest surviving kid of the oldest surviving kid--but that's not to say gender doesn't come into play, too. Before Cersei, there had never been a Queen of the 7 Kingdoms, so to think everybody would be cool with Dany (think about what's going on with Jon and Sansa in the North) is a stretch.

[epilogue]

Spoiler: show

Because he is the son of the crown prince. That's how royalty works.

Fucking duh! Sorry. That was a stupid question on my part. All this stuff swims right past me sometimes. Thank you.

Spoiler: show

I get confused on all the bloodline stuff, especially if I tune out for a while. And I haven't thought about GoT in a year. For some reason I thought Dany and Jon would be brother/sister, not Aunt/Nephew. I got it all straight now.

Yeah, it can be confusing, especially since lots of this is emphasized over and over in the books but has been mentioned once--if at all--in the show.

Spoiler: show

Anders is right, though: Jon's the oldest surviving kid of the oldest surviving kid--but that's not to say gender doesn't come into play, too. Before Cersei, there had never been a Queen of the 7 Kingdoms, so to think everybody would be cool with Dany (think about what's going on with Jon and Sansa in the North) is a stretch.

Exactly. There's where I was going to go with it. I think that's one of my favorite aspects of the story. Feast is my favorite book because it deals so much with that stuff --

Spoiler: show

gender politics and subversion

-- and I'm a little bummed that the show hasn't done more with it. Though, it does look like this season may be on the way toward changing that.

[epilogue]

Separately, I'm gonna set the over/under on number of times we hear "winter is hear" this season at 16.

[Simple Torture]

Separately, I'm gonna set the over/under on number of times we hear "winter is hear" this season at 16.

Is winter louder now for some reason?

[Anders]

I believe all people are created equal and should have every chance to succeed, regardless of gender, sexuality or ethnicity, and no doubt GRRM feels the same way. However, this show isn't our world in 2017. The story should come first, not pushing any agenda. Of course the show doesn't have the books to follow any more, but whatever GRRM decides to do, will probably be the right decision.

That said I have nothing against women ruling in the show, if its on the Iron Islands (should happen), or Sansa ruling the north if Jon gets busy elsewhere, the women in Dorne, or Arya doing whatever she does. Not huge on Daenarys myself, but I'm sure whatever happens to her will be interesting.

[BurtReynolds]

A major conflict between Jon and Dany over the throne would be a lot more interesting than them teaming up. It would be boring if Dany just dropped her nearly villainous obsession with the throne, or if Jon wasn't interested in being king. Or if one of them died.

But it's probably about time they started wrapping up all the story lines.