Lightning Bolt: the official album thread

[Heathen]

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum

That's a little unfair.

Spoiler: show

It's, like, 65% at least.

Yeah and it's like 95% about Matt Cameron.

Does that mean that at least 61.75% of the posts in RM are about Matt Cameron?

yes, and we're only making that number bigger right now

[stip]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

[evenslow]

But what does Charles Barkley have to say about all this?

[Thejambi]

But what does Charles Barkley have to say about all this?

Ginobiliiiiiiiiii!

[Tuolumne]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

But, yeah, the negativity drives people away. This place can be an echo chamber, or worse, people just saying something just to hear themselves. So, I think there's some self-selection that happens. I want to live with the music for a minute, especially around new album time, so I doubt I'll post much around the time it comes out. I know there's lots of others who feel that way. So, unfortunately, this board will have lots of the typical negativity around mid-October cause it's just going to be the same people.

[lecherouslittlestump]

holy fuck you guys are negative

[Monkey_Driven]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

But, yeah, the negativity drives people away. This place can be an echo chamber, or worse, people just saying something just to hear themselves.

Welcome to the internet.

[Thejambi]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

But, yeah, the negativity drives people away. This place can be an echo chamber, or worse, people just saying something just to hear themselves.

This isn't too far off. The conversation here can be really insightful and rewarding but it does get interlaced with the snide and sarcastic comments that tend to derail them. It is really hard to decipher what is tongue and cheek which I think is part of the perception problem. Honestly though there are so many conversations that cover the whole spectrum it isn't that hard to engage in those that you see fit.

[harmless]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

But, yeah, the negativity drives people away. This place can be an echo chamber, or worse, people just saying something just to hear themselves.

Whilst I like this place and will stay here whatever happens because people are cool and I am addicted, I generally agree that I'm starting to wonder whether I'm going to be turned off the next album by other people. I guess I don't see the point in reading so much negativity this time, if only because it's always the same shit and has been for like three or four albums now. The same complaints have been levelled at this band for over a decade, so we should all be mature enough to say we can try to appreciate the albums on their own merits. I feel like, as time has passed, we've been able to do that with S/T and Backspacer, but probably only after the bitching is all said and done. I can't police people's feelings but it would be sad if we weren't all at least curious to hear these studio versions. The anticipation before MYM was hilarious, a lot of fun and, well, positive. Over the last couple of days that's all come crashing down, like a huge wave and I've wiped out.

[harmless]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

But, yeah, the negativity drives people away. This place can be an echo chamber, or worse, people just saying something just to hear themselves.

This isn't too far off. The conversation here can be really insightful and rewarding but it does get interlaced with the snide and sarcastic comments that tend to derail them. It is really hard to decipher what is tongue and cheek which I think is part of the perception problem. Honestly though there are so many conversations that cover the whole spectrum it isn't that hard to engage in those that you see fit.

To some extent, I think that understanding when people are being ironic / tongue-in-cheek depends on knowing personalities. But my rule here has always been that people are fucking around unless they tell me they're not. The default position is irony. Which is why I love the forum, it's hilarious. But if anyone's coming in cold and doesn't have a sense of the culture, I can understand them thinking we're just all a bunch of dicks. We should make a Sticky detailing what newbies can expect in this regard.

[Strat]

Well it's a question of proportionality. There is far less of the vacuous positive stuff and it tends to not color conversations the same way. It leaves a much smaller footprint. New posters leave RM all the time because of the negativity (or feel intimidated to post). No one, to my knowledge, has come here and decided that this place is too hyper accepting of everything pearl jam does.


And you could very well be right in that this bothers me way out of proportion to what it should.

I guess this won't be settled until someone actually does the math but I just don't think there is that much more negative posting than positive posting, hell I wouldn't be surprised if it were the other way around (because everytime someone says 'this album rocks', 'this song is great', 'wws is a top 5 song' etc. it's positive posting that doesn't bring much to the table, and again, there's nothing problematic about that).

Basically... harmless himself probably makes up for 50% of the posting on the forum and on every single matter he's just as depressingly negative as he is positive and optimistic, so it has to be pretty balanced, right? If you ban chud it's not even a question anymore.

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

But, yeah, the negativity drives people away. This place can be an echo chamber, or worse, people just saying something just to hear themselves. So, I think there's some self-selection that happens. I want to live with the music for a minute, especially around new album time, so I doubt I'll post much around the time it comes out. I know there's lots of others who feel that way. So, unfortunately, this board will have lots of the typical negativity around mid-October cause it's just going to be the same people.

Well, if someone does have something positive to say then the "negative posters" will ultimately just call them mindless sheep and idiots for accepting mediocrity. Now, most of these posters are joksters, or think they are the funniest posters on the internet, but any new RM member will not understand this and will most likely leave with a bad taste in their mouth and be unlikely to return.

[OmegaprimeVKM]

Admittedly, I don't like the way things have gone for the past few years, but I do note there was a similar quantity of complaining and resentment back when I joined this forums in 2005 regarding Riot Act. At the time I was still a teenager and getting used to the fanbase opinion on here. Riot Act was the strongest album the band had made, in my opinion. It was a passionate, patient and proactive record. I eventually settled on Binaural being my favourite record but Riot Act is in my top 3.

I won't buy in to the Backspacer and S/T positivity - it's abundantly clear that there's a true lack of complexity and conflict in the songwriting and construction process resulting is simplistic and formulaic output with pop overtones and a stock rock n roll riff. Since things have gone digital, Pearl Jam have taken an increasingly back seat towards writing, recording, production, marketing, perhaps even touring (5 shows in Italy, 1 in the UK, what's that all about?). When they guys who do enjoy newer material do (and you are more than entitled to do so) I don't really read many valid justifications for that. It's more of a stronger sense of nostalgia (I feel too young for that) or perhaps accessibility. I still reckon if Vedder had written Johnny Guitar back in '96, it wouldn't even have made it onto a Christmas single.

In a truly, non-nostalgic sense, I'd be shocked if the band could produce another All Those Yesterdays or You Are. Instead we're stuck with plodders like Come Back and Future Days that make me want to listen to bands that can actually try and still care. I think the lack of self-doubt in the band is making things far too easy now. Perhaps, with age, there's a submission to redundancy.

the important thing is that you've established such a firm and objective basis for your opinion, while chalking up disagreements to the self delusions of others.

Music is an artform and to make art publicly available is to also accept that others will view and judge it. My views are merely as subjective as any other is and I am not as dismissive of others because they enjoy what I don't. It's more that I have decided and thus have explained my reasoning.

I could give you a classic example right now: I would rather listen to Santa Cruz and Turning Mist than Johnny Guitar or Supersonic. That is a true opinion of mine. I could take it personally when I am derided for half the board for that view or I can accept that very few would ever be on that side. But certainly, once I have formed my opinion, it is not going to be the case that a prevailing opinion is going to be overidden when others disagree. If that was the case, we may as well be all wasting our time as the majority opinion with PJ is once you've listened to Ten you've heard everything that matters. Almost half of their global sales arise from that one record. And there are very few peopel here who feel that way.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

i like what i've heard so far. i'm looking forward to October.

It sucks that its that far away, but im pretty excited for this album

[gardenparty]

my rule here has always been that people are fucking around unless they tell me they're not. The default position is irony

that's pretty much my understanding of this place

[elliseamos]

i like what i've heard so far. i'm looking forward to October.

It sucks that its that far away, but im pretty excited for this album

are you still excited? or is it that you're now excited after hearing where they're at?

[EJ]

Agreed. This place leans heavily towards cynical, but its mostly light-hearted. I'd say the majority of the posters are cautiously pessimistic towards post-2006 PJ and are really hoping to be "proven" wrong.

[digster]

Count me as one who has trouble coming back here. This place has so much potential, man, it's a shame. Lots of really thoughtful and articulate people, really providing good critical review of the music and debate about it. But ...... just tons of BS and overwhelming negativity. I'm thinking of just syaing off for the new album release cause I don't want it to color how I listen to it. I want to listen to the album freely, and not be influenced. It's like a Debby Downer thing. I just want to feel the new music, and then I'll figure out where I stand on it. Taking one listen, and then posting some histrionic statement about how much I love it or or how much it sucks only ruins it for me. Imagine doing that for Vs way back when. I think things would have been different if there a message board during the early years.

I don't quite know how to say this in a good way, but I think you just need to have more confidence in your opinion. It's words on an Internet, and at some point in everyone's life, they're going to be in the minority opinion. I think Mankind is a fantastic song, and that sure isn't going to put me in the majority viewpoint. But I don't really think the fact that 90% of people would probably think I'm a doofus for feeling that way sway me; I think I see something in the song that others don't but realize they're coming from a valid viewpoint. If theskyiscrape.com has that much sway over your views on a song, how much would a one-on-one conversation in real life have?

That's why I think it a tad bit disingenuous when we talk about how it's the 'tone' of the posts here that drags it down a bit. It's that posters who are positive about the new material don't really like being in the minority. And if that's your viewpoint, okay, but let's call it that instead of trying to bury the lede.

[lecherouslittlestump]

PJ's facebook just linked an iTunes page to pre-order. It has the tracklist. Has this been posted?

1) Go Get 'Em
2) Mind Your Manners
3) Lightning Bolt
4) Catching Fire
5) Of The Earth
6) Sanctuary
7) Future Days
8) Sirens
9) Punch 'n' Judy
10) The Things We Treasure Most
11) Cosmos
12) Lit Up
13) Betterman (Live)

[digster]

my rule here has always been that people are fucking around unless they tell me they're not. The default position is irony

that's pretty much my understanding of this place

Same. I think a lot of the supposed negativity around here is often just being sarcastic.

[evenslow]

Yeah put me in with the tuolumne/jambi/harmless/strat/and others group. Like an idiot, I feel as if I have to defend this position once in a while, like it's a noble effort when in the end, that's a completely ridiculous thing to think and leads to pissing matches.

I contributed to that last night and KD became an avatar for the larger fight, which is my fault, but it honestly comes from a place of wanting to carve out one corner of this board where we can be semi-reasonable about Pearl Jam's music. You can enjoy the hell out of the process of hearing new music while also being ambivalent or hot/cold about how it all sounds. There should be room for nuance there but it's a balance that we almost never strike.

And to say "welcome to the internet" is a copout. We're adults here with some interesting things to say and interesting ways to say it. There are pockets of it but ultimately not enough. Maybe I'm nuts, but this place has felt overwhelmingly negative for years and it's not fun anymore to try and poke holes in that, which is how I saw whatever "role" I had.

But that's my problem.