Red Mosquito

PHATJ wrote:

mikejasond wrote:Do you really not understand what Im trying to get at? Maybe somebody can word it better.

The Daughter transition is insanely seamless, the verse flows perfectly, the rhythm just rides along, yet the instrumentation and finer points of the tone change drastically

Everyone understands what you are describing, mjd. That isn’t the issue. What we all find funny is that you act like PJ is the only band that has ever done the slow build up of a song from single instrument to full band. The sheer amazement and joy you find in this simple and popular formula is what we all giggle about. Sure, Better Man and Daughter do this well, and I love both of those songs, but to act like these are groundbreaking compositions based on the quiet —> loud or single instrument —> full band arrangement is absurd.

Can you show me a song that does it as well as betterman? Thats what Im saying. Yes other bands do it. Just not as well. I cant think of a song as good as the build in Betterman. Thats what I was asking for an example of. Somebody that does what PJ does in betterman as well as PJ does it.

Or a full band intro that works as well as Daughter's does.

But mostly I think betterman is the more exceptional song

theplatypus wrote:It changes by not changing at all

I was quoting "Small Town", guys. Another song that does this.

Yes Small Town is another one of my top 5 songs. Very good song. Doesn't quite do what betterman does but it does build nicely

mikejasond wrote:....You do realize there is more to a song than chords right? The sound is very different even if the chords are the same.

You do realize there is more to a song than volume, right? Just because it’s louder doesn’t mean it’s “different”.

This is a weird argument we're having. "Better Man" is a really good song. Nobody disagrees

Daughter strikes me as a fairly unconventional composition, though not really drawing attention to its strangeness. I'm thinking of how the vocal melody changes throughout the verse (a verse which never reappears), a pre-chorus that also appears only once, etc. Better Man, on the other hand, is a great song, but a fairly conventional one.

mikejasond wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

mikejasond wrote:Do you really not understand what Im trying to get at? Maybe somebody can word it better.

The Daughter transition is insanely seamless, the verse flows perfectly, the rhythm just rides along, yet the instrumentation and finer points of the tone change drastically

Everyone understands what you are describing, mjd. That isn’t the issue. What we all find funny is that you act like PJ is the only band that has ever done the slow build up of a song from single instrument to full band. The sheer amazement and joy you find in this simple and popular formula is what we all giggle about. Sure, Better Man and Daughter do this well, and I love both of those songs, but to act like these are groundbreaking compositions based on the quiet —> loud or single instrument —> full band arrangement is absurd.

Can you show me a song that does it as well as betterman? Thats what Im saying. Yes other bands do it. Just not as well. I cant think of a song as good as the build in Betterman. Thats what I was asking for an example of. Somebody that does what PJ does in betterman as well as PJ does it.

Or a full band intro that works as well as Daughter's does.

But mostly I think betterman is the more exceptional song

Stairway to Heaven

theplatypus wrote:

theplatypus wrote:It changes by not changing at all

I was quoting "Small Town", guys. Another song that does this.

I think we got that, Jorge. It was a quality quote drop.

PHATJ wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

mikejasond wrote:Do you really not understand what Im trying to get at? Maybe somebody can word it better.

The Daughter transition is insanely seamless, the verse flows perfectly, the rhythm just rides along, yet the instrumentation and finer points of the tone change drastically

Everyone understands what you are describing, mjd. That isn’t the issue. What we all find funny is that you act like PJ is the only band that has ever done the slow build up of a song from single instrument to full band. The sheer amazement and joy you find in this simple and popular formula is what we all giggle about. Sure, Better Man and Daughter do this well, and I love both of those songs, but to act like these are groundbreaking compositions based on the quiet —> loud or single instrument —> full band arrangement is absurd.

Can you show me a song that does it as well as betterman? Thats what Im saying. Yes other bands do it. Just not as well. I cant think of a song as good as the build in Betterman. Thats what I was asking for an example of. Somebody that does what PJ does in betterman as well as PJ does it.

Or a full band intro that works as well as Daughter's does.

But mostly I think betterman is the more exceptional song

Stairway to Heaven

Yes Stairway to Heaven does it well too, but what impresses me about Better Man is that they do in 4 minutes what Stairway does in 8.

What also impresses me is that somehow Better Man feels like its not even 4 minutes. I was shocked to even see that it was that long, since I would have guessed Stairway is like 3-4 times as long as Better Man which says something IMO.

Stairway also has a lot more repetition. As I said Better Man never repeats itself once, while Stairway does a bunch of times.

And its funny to me that people refuse to acknowledge that a verse with completely different instrumentation sounds different, even if the melody is the same.

The second verse of better man and the second chorus gives you something new to listen to but its like people here dont hear it they just hear the same melody and chords and say it sounds the same. Which to me is absurd since it sounds completely different

I would probably think 'I dont want to really wanna listen to Stairway right now that song is so long' but I will never think that about Betterman. Betterman never gets old or boring it FLIES by

And Im still looking for one example of a song that does what Better Man does as concisely as Better Man does it.

"Bettter man never repeats itself once"


What are you talking about?

Strat wrote:"Bettter man never repeats itself once"


What are you talking about?

I’m really confused with this guy. The only thing I know for certain is that he is really connected to Betterman. I’m not sure Ed could even type as much about a simple song like it as much as this poster.

What section of the song sounds like another section of the song? Every single section has something new about it. You never hear the same thing twice. Every single time it moves to a new section its a new part.

I can't get bored of the song because Im always given something new to listen to.

If you tell me the first verse and the second verse are the same you need to get your head out of your ass because youre not listening to the song and are so deep into it that you cant take a step back and hear what youre actually listening to.

mikejasond wrote:And Im still looking for one example of a song that does what Better Man does as concisely as Better Man does it.

What is the point? Literally any song that anyone could post as an example, you will respond to with "yeah that's good but Better Man does it better".

mikejasond wrote:What section of the song sounds like another section of the song? Every single section has something new about it. You never hear the same thing twice. Every single time it moves to a new section its a new part.

I can't get bored of the song because Im always given something new to listen to.

If you tell me the first verse and the second verse are the same you need to get your head out of your ass because youre not listening to the song and are so deep into it that you cant take a step back and hear what youre actually listening to.

lol wut

theplatypus wrote:

mikejasond wrote:And Im still looking for one example of a song that does what Better Man does as concisely as Better Man does it.

What is the point? Literally any song that anyone could post as an example, you will respond to with "yeah that's good but Better Man does it better".

Not necessarily. Why don't you try?

Strat wrote:

mikejasond wrote:What section of the song sounds like another section of the song? Every single section has something new about it. You never hear the same thing twice. Every single time it moves to a new section its a new part.

I can't get bored of the song because Im always given something new to listen to.

If you tell me the first verse and the second verse are the same you need to get your head out of your ass because youre not listening to the song and are so deep into it that you cant take a step back and hear what youre actually listening to.

lol wut

Its boggling my mind that people think the first and second verse of Betterman sound the same because they are the same chords and melody and they completely ignore the different feel and instrumentation which makes a completely different sound.

mikejasond wrote:

Strat wrote:

mikejasond wrote:What section of the song sounds like another section of the song? Every single section has something new about it. You never hear the same thing twice. Every single time it moves to a new section its a new part.

I can't get bored of the song because Im always given something new to listen to.

If you tell me the first verse and the second verse are the same you need to get your head out of your ass because youre not listening to the song and are so deep into it that you cant take a step back and hear what youre actually listening to.

lol wut

Its boggling my mind that people think the first and second verse of Betterman sound the same because they are the same chords and melody and they completely ignore the different feel and instrumentation which makes a completely different sound.

It isn't that complicated, though. It mean, it is their go-to sing along song so

When did I say it was complicated? Complicated does not mean good. Im still waiting for a song that does what Betterman does as well as Betterman does it. If nobody can name one then it is a pretty unique song, more so than people are giving it credit for.

So far we've had Stairway to Heaven, which as I said, is a good song, but to me feels a lot more dragged out and long.

Literally the only difference in the first and second verse is the subtle organ in the second verse. The third verse is where the finger picking ends, the drums kick in, and everything is being strummed.