Red Mosquito

cutuphalfdead wrote:This is my new favorite thread.

I AL'd twice at Ruddo's spoiler content. Well played, to say the least.

Argo's Vegan Tips #1: eat a mango. holy shit mangoes are good.

Pro Tip (Advanced Vegans ONLY): wait for the mango to be ripe

Argo, I was thinking about creating some "food industry is fucked" thread content on my way to work today believe it or not. Wasn't sure if we had a thread for that and I don't really want to search at the moment. Okay if I use this one for some thoughts on that?

You made a few points in the OP about the near impossibility of responsibly milking dairy cows and things like that. Maybe it's just the state I live in, but I don't think things are as bad as that. I grew up in a town where people raised animals and grew rice. I still see some of those people's products in stores both small and large. The farmers markets and restaurants I like to go to all list their farms and I've researched and even visited many of those places. Everything seemed on the up and up, but what do I know? Anecdotal evidence, sure, but I'm curious if being a Texan is more advantageous in this respect or if communities near you also have presumably ethical things going on with their farms?

Or is this using animals for food and byproducts more of an inherent cruelty to you?

The Argonaut wrote:Argo's Vegan Tips #1: eat a mango. holy shit mangoes are good.

Pro Tip (Advanced Vegans ONLY): wait for the mango to be ripe

Mangoes are GREAT

washing machine wrote:Argo, I was thinking about creating some "food industry is fucked" thread content on my way to work today believe it or not. Wasn't sure if we had a thread for that and I don't really want to search at the moment. Okay if I use this one for some thoughts on that?

You made a few points in the OP about the near impossibility of responsibly milking dairy cows and things like that. Maybe it's just the state I live in, but I don't think things are as bad as that. I grew up in a town where people raised animals and grew rice. I still see some of those people's products in stores both small and large. The farmers markets and restaurants I like to go to all list their farms and I've researched and even visited many of those places. Everything seemed on the up and up, but what do I know? Anecdotal evidence, sure, but I'm curious if being a Texan is more advantageous in this respect or if communities near you also have presumably ethical things going on with their farms?

Or is this using animals for food and byproducts more of an inherent cruelty to you?

Use this thread for whatever you want.
I also grew up around picturesque dairy farms. One of my favorite activities as a kid was to walk up into the woods behind my house, climb a tree, and watch the cows for a while. I wooed my college girlfriend in part by telling the story of the time I jumped a fence and got chased by a bull.
So can one search out a nice farm and only buy milk from them? Can a kind dairy farm exist?
I don't know. Like I said earlier, the dairy industry has to be tied closely to the beef industry. Male calves will be sent to slaughter. All calves will be taken from the mothers. Otherwise, a dairy farm is unsustainable. They'll have too many unproductive cows. So, by eating dairy, you're also directly supporting killing cows. In a way, it's not even vegetarian.
The environmental factor of sustaining dairy cows is also something worth looking into. It won't look good.

I mean, you're probably right, but the direction that post took was quite the trip from pastoral golden memories to the crushing heartbreak of shattered childhood innocence. I'm depressed now.

And I can't find a way to square my ethics with any kind of killing animals for food. Even if killing animals in as painless a way as possible. Those animals don't want to die, and it doesn't serve any higher purpose and it isn't necessary. I'm not sure what gives us the right. We don't need the meat, at least in wealthy North America. It uses more land to grow animals for meat than it would to just grow food.
I have an illustrative thought experiment that I made up last year that involves aliens and developmentally disabled people, but I'll save that for another day.

Consider the lobster, indeed.

washing machine wrote:Consider the lobster, indeed.

Lobsters are basically water spiders, are we committing acts of senseless cruelty when we kill spiders in our homes?

Or is it just cruel to kill and eat lobster?

I don't know. It's a difficult area to say that one thing is right, and another is wrong. I think we can all agree that killing humans is wrong. Then there are cats and dogs, that we may have a special bond to. Yet, in China they eat them.

I see people on Facebook that want to murder a hunter of wild prey in Africa, but they themselves eat hunted meat from our area, and eat meat every day from farms.

Humans have always been carnivores, and that has helped us get to where we are today. It's part of the circle of life, and of nature.

Asher, where do you stand on the fact that humans are carnivores? Would you prefer they only get their meat by hunting? Or are all carnivores dicks and should not eat meat? I'm always curious the vegan's stance on this, as other animals are carnivores and they don't seem to have a problem with the lion killing the gazelle or whatever. I'm not judging, just curious. In a perfect world, we would eat meat only if we hunted it.

tragabigzanda wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:In a perfect world, we would eat meat only if we hunted it.

Why is that? How is this superior to raising the animal in humane conditions before slaughtering and processing?

I just think that the process has become wasteful. There is so much meat leftover/unused or whatever. I've been in the grocery store and seen the meat department workers pulling packs upon packs of meat off the shelves. I heard a lady ask, "will that go on sale?" to which he replied "no, this already was the sale meat, this is getting trashed".

On the flipside, nose to tail menus seem to be gaining popularity in restaurants across the globe. Of course that doesn't solve ruddock and argo's problem of how the animal comes to the kitchen in the first place, but I think we have an appetite for a lot more of the animal than just cuts of the good stuff.

Reminds me that we need a menudo thread.

I'm not vegan by any means, but I do see so much waste in the commercial meat industry, just at the grocery store alone. It seems unnecessary.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I'm not vegan by any means, but I do see so much waste in the commercial meat industry, just at the grocery store alone. It seems unnecessary.

I get it. I just think there are solutions to that already happening (see posts about menus above.) Even in grocery stores you can see that throwing away animal waste doesn't have to be the default. Think about Asian food markets or Mexican meat markets. You see all kinds of things there that you'd never see at a regular supermarket. I do agree with you. American supermarket butchers are wasteful. Maybe we just need to shop at Super H Mart more, experiment with more animal parts and send these wastoids a message.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Asher, where do you stand on the fact that humans are carnivores? Would you prefer they only get their meat by hunting? Or are all carnivores dicks and should not eat meat? I'm always curious the vegan's stance on this, as other animals are carnivores and they don't seem to have a problem with the lion killing the gazelle or whatever. I'm not judging, just curious. In a perfect world, we would eat meat only if we hunted it.

Humans are not carnivores.