Red Mosquito

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

Spitballing here but couldn't that theme even be applied to Vs.?

Possibly.

Does anyone have any irrational hatreds they'd like to share?

The FD keyboard "bookends".

Lament wrote:Does anyone have any irrational hatreds they'd like to share?

Plantains.

Lament wrote:Does anyone have any irrational hatreds they'd like to share?

People that look like other people that I actually do hate.

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

That is correct. It is a better album than those records, and as such is not on their level.

Quoted for posterity.

As someone who was sixteen when OK Computer came out and was as big of a Radiohead fan as you could find at the time, I have no problem with someone thinking Vitalogy is a better record. I prefer Vitalogy myself.

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

I see someone referred to the White Album as that, but no way. First, the Beatles loved fame, second, the culture didn't twist fame at that point. Those days, when you were famous, it meant you actually did something. Second, name a band that did address that subject with a full album and was at an EQUAL level of fame that PJ was at the time. Vitalogy illustrates a vantage point at a very specific level of fame and celebrity, and it does it with a viewpoint that no one had ever had at that level of fame. I stand by it.

Pink Floyd wasn't at the same level in 1975...or even 1979....as Pearl Jam was in 1994, though. Their success was built on the way their records sold over many years.

I'd say Vitalogy is more tied in to a series of "consequence" themed albums. Wish You Were Here, or The Wall, and stuff like Tonight's the Night, Exile on Main Street, and In Utero.

I enjoyed that someone took the Beatles joke seriously.

PJChat is the best.

The best what

zeb wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

That is correct. It is a better album than those records, and as such is not on their level.

Quoted for posterity.

Quoting something in the same thread it just appeared, about 20 posts after its debut appearance, definitely help preserve it.

matt reeder wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The intro to "Better Man" is, to me, the best part of the studio version. It's untouchable. It sets up the song perfectly, and I've always wished they would try it live. The guitar part at the end of "Not For You" is also the best part of the song, and wraps it up in an unexpected way that is perfectly fitting. The easy way out would be to end the song after a guitar solo; instead they ended it after a chiming, haunting reprise of the song's main chords further up the fretboard. Sheer genius.

Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

That is correct. It is a better album than those records, and as such is not on their level.

Opinions are like assholes, stip. Here are 12 more albums I think are as good or better than Vitalogy:

Sleater-Kinney - The Woods
Built to Spill - Perfect From Now On
Radiohead - Kid A
Paul Simon - Graceland
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
The Clash - London Calling
R.E.M. - Murmur
Pavement - Wowee Zowee
The Beatles - Abbey Road
Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
The Minutemen - Double Nickles on the Dime

In the end, it's just an opinion. You are entitled to yours but you should expect a lot of people to disagree with you strongly. One of my best friends will tell you that he thinks Uncle Tupelo's March 16-20, 1992 is the greatest album of all time. He could spend hours talking about it and used it as the inspiration for his graduate thesis. Does that make him right? Yes and no. Does it really matter? My favorite album of all time is Siamese Dream. I could spend hours telling you why I think it's one of the greatest albums of all time but that doesn't mean I expect other people to agree with me. That's what makes it my favorite album, but not the best album.

The four albums I cited in the previous post are often listed as 4 of the greatest albums ever recorded. Good luck trying to convince a large group of music lovers that Vitalogy is a better album than any of those, regardless of what you think of it.

Mind blown

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

I see someone referred to the White Album as that, but no way. First, the Beatles loved fame, second, the culture didn't twist fame at that point. Those days, when you were famous, it meant you actually did something. Second, name a band that did address that subject with a full album and was at an EQUAL level of fame that PJ was at the time. Vitalogy illustrates a vantage point at a very specific level of fame and celebrity, and it does it with a viewpoint that no one had ever had at that level of fame. I stand by it.

Moving the goalposts much? That wasn't what you said. You said Vitalogy was the first album to address those issues, I said it wasn't. Some bands make an entire career of addressing those issues, it's been part of a punk aesthetic long before Pearl Jam and even before Nirvana.

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

I see someone referred to the White Album as that, but no way. First, the Beatles loved fame, second, the culture didn't twist fame at that point. Those days, when you were famous, it meant you actually did something. Second, name a band that did address that subject with a full album and was at an EQUAL level of fame that PJ was at the time. Vitalogy illustrates a vantage point at a very specific level of fame and celebrity, and it does it with a viewpoint that no one had ever had at that level of fame. I stand by it.

Nirvana - In Utero
Pink Floyd - The Wall

Off the top of my head.

twoheadedboy wrote:Nirvana - In Utero
Pink Floyd - The Wall

Off the top of my head.

Apparently I'm so good at internetting, I double posted with someone else's account.

Also, Vitalogy isn't even the consensus best album from 1994 let alone all time.

Nirvana - Unplugged In New York
Green Day - Dookie
NIN - The Downward Spiral
Soundgarden - Superunknown
Pantera - Far Beyond Driven

I would definitely put Vitalogy in with those other 5, but to say it is the best out of all of them hands down is completely wrong. I'm pretty sure I'd take at least Superunknown over it. And front to back, I'd take No Code, or an alternate universe Binaural over Vitalogy. A 1995 Vitalogy with Jack on drums, including I Got Shit, Long Road, Lukin, and Hard To Imagine instead of the filler tracks though, would put it in my top 3 albums of all time by anybody.

Matt listed some other albums better than Vitalogy and I agree with most of them. Some others:

Band of Gypsies
Sgt. Pepper
Revolver
Exile On Main St.
Quadrophenia
Who's Next
Dark Side of the Moon
Joshua Tree
Nevermind
In Utero
Layla
In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
Surfer Rosa
Dirt
The Fragile
Edit: Pinkerton

All of those are more consistent and/or more impactful than Vitalogy IMO.

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

Exactly waht I think and what I mean with "different times".

Vitalogy is a masterpiece of understanding what the hell was going on and what the hell was coming in 2000's.

Lightning Bolt is a mind free piece of art, very good, good themes, but Vitalogy is the album that changed Pearl Jam forever.

There is a band before Vitalogy and another after the album. Even though there significant were changes after Yield, Vitalogy era was severe, it constructed the personality and the face of the band.

If Vitalogy is the struggle to maintain purity, Backspacer is them throwing in the towel and "Sirens" is them bending over and grabbing their ankles.

Whoops, this isn't the PJ Bitching thread.