Strat wrote:Im not a huge fan of this original tracklist. The flow isnt as interesting. In theory it seems nice having all of those moody pieces clumped at the end but in play it just doesnt have the same effect.
I truly believe what bInaural became was the best choice.
Agreed. I mean, I would have loved it if they could have shoehorned "Sad" and "Fatal" in there somehow but what they released is fine. I cannot abide by the album ending with anything other than "Parting Ways"...it just doesn't seem right.
It does seem bizarre, as though you're walking to your car in the cold, dark midnight after enduring a devastating exchange with a now-undefined lover concerning the slow, gradual death of a relationship that has existed for 10+ years, a conversation that ends on no certain terms but seems to drag on forever in a sort of static drone of dull, aching sadness, and all of a sudden you realize you forgot to tell her that recently you've been plagued by a nagging feeling that one of your high school teachers may have been underqualified.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sat November 01, 2014 2:42 pm
by bada
I like the original track-listing with God's Dice in there quit a bit. Personally I would have liked Education in between Thin Air and NAIS just to break up all the slow jams but overall I like it better than the released version. Those extra four songs are too good.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sat November 01, 2014 3:36 pm
by stip
Kevin Davis wrote:
matt reeder wrote:
Strat wrote:Im not a huge fan of this original tracklist. The flow isnt as interesting. In theory it seems nice having all of those moody pieces clumped at the end but in play it just doesnt have the same effect.
I truly believe what bInaural became was the best choice.
Agreed. I mean, I would have loved it if they could have shoehorned "Sad" and "Fatal" in there somehow but what they released is fine. I cannot abide by the album ending with anything other than "Parting Ways"...it just doesn't seem right.
It does seem bizarre, as though you're walking to your car in the cold, dark midnight after enduring a devastating exchange with a now-undefined lover concerning the slow, gradual death of a relationship that has existed for 10+ years, a conversation that ends on no certain terms but seems to drag on forever in a sort of static drone of dull, aching sadness, and all of a sudden you realize you forgot to tell her that recently you've been plagued by a nagging feeling that one of your high school teachers may have been underqualified.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sat November 01, 2014 4:32 pm
by VinylGuy
Yeah parting ways is how you finish an album.
Love that song.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sat November 01, 2014 4:47 pm
by McParadigm
Man, those Tchad Blake mixes have made me fall in love with this album all over again. They've also kind of ruined the songs that we still only have a Brendan mix for, though. I don't ever want to hear that ruinous swamp again.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sat November 01, 2014 6:00 pm
by McParadigm
So I came across a Mike McCready interview where he says the band didn't like Tchad mixes because they wanted the songs to sound heavier.
Funny that this decision led to mixes that soften the dynamic punch and ultimately feel less heavy, because the whole thing sounds mushy and forced.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sat November 01, 2014 8:32 pm
by surfndestroy
Kevin Davis wrote:
matt reeder wrote:
Strat wrote:Im not a huge fan of this original tracklist. The flow isnt as interesting. In theory it seems nice having all of those moody pieces clumped at the end but in play it just doesnt have the same effect.
I truly believe what bInaural became was the best choice.
Agreed. I mean, I would have loved it if they could have shoehorned "Sad" and "Fatal" in there somehow but what they released is fine. I cannot abide by the album ending with anything other than "Parting Ways"...it just doesn't seem right.
It does seem bizarre, as though you're walking to your car in the cold, dark midnight after enduring a devastating exchange with a now-undefined lover concerning the slow, gradual death of a relationship that has existed for 10+ years, a conversation that ends on no certain terms but seems to drag on forever in a sort of static drone of dull, aching sadness, and all of a sudden you realize you forgot to tell her that recently you've been plagued by a nagging feeling that one of your high school teachers may have been underqualified.
So your saying that every album since Binaural should have ended with Parting Ways as a musical metaphor for the quality of the band's music. After Backspacer and Lightning Bolt the next album may need to be eleven tracks of Parting Ways.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sun November 02, 2014 6:13 pm
by LooseGroove927
McParadigm wrote:
I actually put together an expanded Of the Girl by splicing in a bit of the instrumental take
Is there any way you could provide us with a link to your expanded Of The Girl?
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sun November 02, 2014 7:11 pm
by Hypnos
Is there a way (I know there is) to isolate some of the voices of the 2000´s tour improvs and put them in some of the instrumentals (Harmony, Foldback, Thunderclap)? I´m kinda obsessed with this right now. I need more Binaural.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sun November 02, 2014 7:13 pm
by Norah
Sort of, but it sounds like shit.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sun November 02, 2014 10:41 pm
by samiad
I was really surprised by how much I like this tracklist order.
I kind of think a double album that runs with a split would have been incredible:
Disc 1.
Breakerfall
God's Dice
Insignificance
Evacuation
Sad
Rival
Grievance
Light Years
Disc 2.
Of the Girl
Thin Air
Nothing as it Seems
Fatal
Sleight of Hand
Soon Forget
In the Moonlight
Parting Ways
Education
The run from Nothing As it Seems - Fatal - Sleight of Hand is completely drool-worthy...
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Sun November 02, 2014 11:50 pm
by McParadigm
LooseGroove927 wrote:Is there any way you could provide us with a link to your expanded Of The Girl?
Apparently I or (more likely) my son deleted it. I'm going to rebuild it when I have time.
One thing that really stands out with the Tchad Blake mixes...keeping in mind that they are unmastered and considering what the mastered cuts on Binaural that he mixed sound like...is how far away from Brendan's "make Eddie Vedder really loud in the mix at the cost of everything else" they run. The guitars are louder relative to the vocals, and are captured more precisely. They also seem to be looking more for the quirk in each song than for the quality that will make it most digestible.
Breakerfall is less "different" that most, but the changes are impactful. In Brendan's version, Eddie is louder in the mix, and either the Who-borrow guitar was rerecorded using a different tone or some tonal editing was involved. All of the rough mixes from Tchad are notable for guitars that try to speed up the show and, as a result, drums that are sometimes slightly behind them in timing...so either our copies of his mixes are from very early in the process, or part of needing to fatten up the muddy midrange was to hide all the minor adjustments that were required to make everything radio-tight. They are definitely the same base performances.
The bass in Brendan's mix is more prominent, but that is largely down to the mastering process. The caveat there is that Brendan packed it chock full of mix-muddying frequencies to "fatten" the sound, while Tchad prefers lower end thumping frequencies that leave space for the other parts.
Three segments from the song...in each case, the first run through is the Tchad unmastered mix, and the second is the Brendan final. I can't stress enough how much the mastering effects the end result of a song (again, think of the songs on Binaural that were mastered by Tchad), but you can see where the philosophical differences occur.
Brendan muddied it up so much and made Eddie so much louder relative to everything that it's almost like he added another instrument that takes up formless, textureless space right in the heart of the performance.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 12:07 am
by EJ
Cool write up McP. This is probably the most interesting reissue we'd potentially get someday. Would they have the balls to release the final Blake masters?
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 12:19 am
by McParadigm
EJ wrote:Would they have the balls to release the final Blake masters?
Yeah, right after they admit that firing their drummer over completely asinine personality differences was childish, that Ed isn't actually drunk every night, that in retrospect they don't find being famous to be a bad thing at all, and that they aren't actually expecting to make "the best Pearl Jam record" with each new release.
Well, and Mike will have to admit on his own that there never was an EP… Not once.
THEN we'll get the TB Binaural mixes.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 12:41 am
by Strat
Man that difference is subtle yet huge.
BOB's mix is so much muddier and the intricacies of the band playing together are completely lost. The Tchad Blake mixes sound great even in their unmastered phase and would have loved to hear the full tchad blake recordings presented in album form.
I dont even know if the bass is louder, but an overall lower end is more prominent in the BOB's mix that sort of muddy's up the overal sound of the song.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 1:14 am
by ridleybradout
Strat wrote:The Tchad Blake mixes sound great even in their unmastered phase and would have loved to hear the full tchad blake recordings presented in album form.
Same, but as McP humorously pointed out - very unlikely. Would not be surprised if the box-set reissues stop anyway after No Code/Yield.
Nice write up McP, thanks for presenting the difference versions against each other
I just posted this is the 'definitive list of versions' thread for anyone who wants more info on the differences between the various versions of Binaural tracks available.
ridleybradout wrote:Proposed updates on request of Stip to include all versions of Binaural tracks available. It’s a bit convoluted but I think this covers it
Breakerfall: 'Binaural demos' version listed is from the 'Binaural Preview' disc, and could be re-labelled Tchad Blake Mix (hi-hat intro, no Ed scream during intro, cleaner mix).
Light Years: 'Binaural demos' version listed is from the 'Binaural Preview' disc, and could be re-labelled Tchad Blake Mix (extended intro, minor lyric difference "it don't seem fair for days to disappear" in last chorus).
Nothing As It Seems: 'Binaural demo, Single' versions currently listed - the former from the 'Binaural Preview' disc is actually the exact same version as from the single. The only difference between these two versions and the album version is a full hi-hat count in.
Insignificance: An additional version of the Tchad Blake mix is on the 'Binaural Preview' disc with longer instrumental intros to each verse.
Sad: 'Unreleased Lost Dogs' could be re-labelled Tchad Blake Mix (the officially released Lost Dogs version was mixed by Brett Eliason). An additional low quality 96k mp3 version of the Tchad Blake mix was part of the 'Binaural Outtakes' leak a few months before the release of Lost Dogs (minor lyric difference "Every photograph is peeling...")
Hitchhiker: Again, the 'Unreleased Lost Dogs' version could be re-labelled Tchad Blake Mix. The officially released Lost Dogs version was mixed by Brett Eliason (otherwise same take).
Fatal: A low quality 96k mp3 version was part of the 'Binaural Outtakes' leak a few months before the release of Lost Dogs (with a spoken count-in by Stone, otherwise identical to ‘rough mix’ and ‘Lost Dogs’ versions listed, all mixed by Tchad Blake).
Education: 'Unreleased Lost Dogs' could be re-labelled 'alternate/early version' (mixed by Tchad Blake, the officially released Lost Dogs version was mixed by Brett Eliason). An later version of the song (a low quality 96k mp3) mixed by Tchad Blake was part of the 'Binaural Outtakes' leak a few months before the release of Lost Dogs (spacier sounding guitars, minor lyric difference in bridge “…a revelation, dissolving words in the snow, simple…)
In The Moonlight: 'Unreleased Lost Dogs' could be re-labelled 'alternate/early version' (mixed by Tchad Blake, as was the officially released Lost Dogs version). Could add Matt Cameron demo to the list (MC demos of Get Right and You Are also exist).
Sweet Lew: 'Unreleased Lost Dogs' could be re-labelled 'alternate/early version' (mixed by Tchad Blake, as was the officially released Lost Dogs version).
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 2:19 am
by McParadigm
I dont even know if the bass is louder, but an overall lower end is more prominent in the BOB's mix that sort of muddy's up the overal sound of the song.
I actually used my version for that example, which had (among other gentle adjustments) the tiniest bump in the lower bass range fed in from BoBs mix....just to counter the unmastered status and make it sit next to mastered Tchad mixes that we have.
So I'm a dick and compared my mix instead of the one everyone else has...but the differences are marginal and inconsequential to the improvements you heard vs the BoB mix.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 3:21 am
by Hypnos
I present you, Turn The Corner: A Binaural Era song.
Re: Binaural [Deluxe]
Posted: Mon November 03, 2014 4:01 am
by Rangi Guy
Has this been floating around for a while or has this only recently been discovered?
