Red Mosquito

I think they really tripped themselves up after Binaural. They reached for something on Binaural, and with the original tracklisting on that album, achieved it for the most part. The final tracklisting, albeit good, scuttled that. From 1998-2003, they really presented themselves as an earnest, mature rock band that seemed lost in their own creative, collective mind. Yield through Riot Act seemed like they were trying to think about their albums and songs. I think they tried that again on S/T, but overthought it and you got an over-cooked album that came off very one-note. Backspacer sounded incredibly lazy to me and like a big throw away.

Hello all

Long time PJ fan. First album I purchased at release day was Vitalogy (my favorite album as well)

Just would like for everyone to know that I am very happy to be a part of this community.

That being said, I think the biggest mistake they have done is occurring right now. This is way to long of a album drought. As you can see from the posts on this board they are alienating their most dedicated fans.

JUST MY 2 CENTS

Jeff becoming obsessed with skateboarding

Actually, their biggest mistake is not having covered Marquee Moon yet.

That's long overdue.

stip wrote:clicking on this thread

stip wrote:really my only big beef over the last 6 years other than some ten club stuff here and there is with the amount of their output. These are prolific songwriters for the most part and should be releasing more music. That's pretty much it.

Agreed.

Earlier I said they haven't really let me down yet. But some 10 Club stuff (which may or may not actually have anything to do with the band itself) and the amount of output have been a bit disappointing.

That's fair.

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:really my only big beef over the last 6 years other than some ten club stuff here and there is with the amount of their output. These are prolific songwriters for the most part and should be releasing more music. That's pretty much it.

Agreed.

Earlier I said they haven't really let me down yet. But some 10 Club stuff (which may or may not actually have anything to do with the band itself) and the amount of output have been a bit disappointing.

That's fair.

yeah, more music guys...Records, singles, ep...whatever, but more music.

surfndestroy wrote:While I think it was great and enjoyed it, looking back I'd say the 2005 tour was their biggest mistake. They stopped having something to say. They learned that people love them as a nostalgia act. I think every tour since has there has been a little less effort from the band and has been a little less satisfying. They learned they can take the easy path (see Target ads, Oracle event). They learned they can have shows like some of the Philly Spectrum shows that just show apathy about their craft and they're still loved.

I would say this more about the 2008 tour. They played like they had something to prove in 2006, and to me that's what makes it one of the best tours the band ever did. Listen to the European tour - every show is intense, and a great mixture of old-school and mature PJ.

It's weird to listen to a Euro 2006 show (like Marseille, or Bern, or Zagreb, or Pistoia, etc) and then listen to a 2008 show. That's not even the same band. It's like they worse themselves out and decided they were done trying to be that band. I don't know how else to explain it. It hasn't been the same ever since.

I would have to agree to an extent.

2006 was definitely one hell of a tour. They were on fire. They were also starting to play more 10 material than ever before. I went to 2 shows that tour and wanted more but money is always a issue for me.

About them "wearing themselves out" IDK about that

matt reeder wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:While I think it was great and enjoyed it, looking back I'd say the 2005 tour was their biggest mistake. They stopped having something to say. They learned that people love them as a nostalgia act. I think every tour since has there has been a little less effort from the band and has been a little less satisfying. They learned they can take the easy path (see Target ads, Oracle event). They learned they can have shows like some of the Philly Spectrum shows that just show apathy about their craft and they're still loved.

I would say this more about the 2008 tour. They played like they had something to prove in 2006, and to me that's what makes it one of the best tours the band ever did. Listen to the European tour - every show is intense, and a great mixture of old-school and mature PJ.

It's weird to listen to a Euro 2006 show (like Marseille, or Bern, or Zagreb, or Pistoia, etc) and then listen to a 2008 show. That's not even the same band. It's like they worse themselves out and decided they were done trying to be that band. I don't know how else to explain it. It hasn't been the same ever since.

yeah the 2008 tour was the first tour ever were i listened and cringe at some bootlegs, specially because of Ed.

2009 was a great tour, 2010 not that much, 2011 great tour, 2012 great tour.

i think their biggest mistake was that this wasn't the vitalogy tracklist:

1 last exit
2 stbc
3 not for you
4 tremor christ
5 nothingman
6 hard to imagine
7 whipping
8 pry, to
9 corduroy
10 satan's bed
11 betterman
12 immortality

daft twat wrote:i think their biggest mistake was that this wasn't the vitalogy tracklist:

1 last exit
2 stbc
3 not for you
4 tremor christ
5 nothingman
6 hard to imagine
7 whipping
8 pry, to
9 corduroy
10 satan's bed
11 betterman
12 immortality

Dude, you accidentally forgot Aye Davanita. Just a heads up.

keeping McCready

Switch PRY TO with BRAIN OF J (they wrote it in 94 was originally called brain of jfk)

Then flip flop HARD TO IMAGINE with WHIPPING

matt reeder wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:While I think it was great and enjoyed it, looking back I'd say the 2005 tour was their biggest mistake. They stopped having something to say. They learned that people love them as a nostalgia act. I think every tour since has there has been a little less effort from the band and has been a little less satisfying. They learned they can take the easy path (see Target ads, Oracle event). They learned they can have shows like some of the Philly Spectrum shows that just show apathy about their craft and they're still loved.

I would say this more about the 2008 tour. They played like they had something to prove in 2006, and to me that's what makes it one of the best tours the band ever did. Listen to the European tour - every show is intense, and a great mixture of old-school and mature PJ.

It's weird to listen to a Euro 2006 show (like Marseille, or Bern, or Zagreb, or Pistoia, etc) and then listen to a 2008 show. That's not even the same band. It's like they worse themselves out and decided they were done trying to be that band. I don't know how else to explain it. It hasn't been the same ever since.

The 2005 tour wasn't a mistake because of how they played but it open the band's eyes to the ease and money of being a nostalgia act. It was the beginning of playing more from Ten than from the newer albums. Even though I think it was done with the best of intentions, it was the beginning of the big cash in.

surfndestroy wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:While I think it was great and enjoyed it, looking back I'd say the 2005 tour was their biggest mistake. They stopped having something to say. They learned that people love them as a nostalgia act. I think every tour since has there has been a little less effort from the band and has been a little less satisfying. They learned they can take the easy path (see Target ads, Oracle event). They learned they can have shows like some of the Philly Spectrum shows that just show apathy about their craft and they're still loved.

I would say this more about the 2008 tour. They played like they had something to prove in 2006, and to me that's what makes it one of the best tours the band ever did. Listen to the European tour - every show is intense, and a great mixture of old-school and mature PJ.

It's weird to listen to a Euro 2006 show (like Marseille, or Bern, or Zagreb, or Pistoia, etc) and then listen to a 2008 show. That's not even the same band. It's like they worse themselves out and decided they were done trying to be that band. I don't know how else to explain it. It hasn't been the same ever since.

The 2005 tour wasn't a mistake because of how they played but it open the band's eyes to the ease and money of being a nostalgia act. It was the beginning of playing more from Ten than from the newer albums. Even though I think it was done with the best of intentions, it was the beginning of the big cash in.

i look at it a little bit different, but still w/ the same result. they made that tour in canada b/c they were having problems writing for the next album and figured a tour could help stimulate the song writing. then they announced 2 shows in AC b/c chris cornell i think said the borgata was a cool place to play. the demand was so high they had to book a show 40 minutes away in philly, and that show sold out in like an hour. then they went to south america where they were pretty much worshipped by the awesome SA fans. all the while they were touring in support of nothing. i guess you could say it was almost a "lost dog" tour b/c they seemed to break out alot more rare songs on this tour.

i think the success of this tour has a little bit to do w/ the way the setlists are almost a formula anymore. they will always throw in a "rare" song to a city, especially cities they sell out all the time like boston. thats part of the reason i thought "wma/99 problems" was so cool. it wasnt just a "rare" song, it was something they never did before. im not saying they need to work w/ more rap artists, but i think this is one of the coolest things they've done in a while.

I'm torn between commenting on spenno's hipster sensibilities or stip's classic condescension, so I'll just stay out of it.

BurtReynolds wrote:I'm torn between commenting on spenno's hipster sensibilities or stip's classic condescension, so I'll just stay out of it.

You, my friend, do not lack agency.

warehouse wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:While I think it was great and enjoyed it, looking back I'd say the 2005 tour was their biggest mistake. They stopped having something to say. They learned that people love them as a nostalgia act. I think every tour since has there has been a little less effort from the band and has been a little less satisfying. They learned they can take the easy path (see Target ads, Oracle event). They learned they can have shows like some of the Philly Spectrum shows that just show apathy about their craft and they're still loved.

I would say this more about the 2008 tour. They played like they had something to prove in 2006, and to me that's what makes it one of the best tours the band ever did. Listen to the European tour - every show is intense, and a great mixture of old-school and mature PJ.

It's weird to listen to a Euro 2006 show (like Marseille, or Bern, or Zagreb, or Pistoia, etc) and then listen to a 2008 show. That's not even the same band. It's like they worse themselves out and decided they were done trying to be that band. I don't know how else to explain it. It hasn't been the same ever since.

The 2005 tour wasn't a mistake because of how they played but it open the band's eyes to the ease and money of being a nostalgia act. It was the beginning of playing more from Ten than from the newer albums. Even though I think it was done with the best of intentions, it was the beginning of the big cash in.

i look at it a little bit different, but still w/ the same result. they made that tour in canada b/c they were having problems writing for the next album and figured a tour could help stimulate the song writing. then they announced 2 shows in AC b/c chris cornell i think said the borgata was a cool place to play. the demand was so high they had to book a show 40 minutes away in philly, and that show sold out in like an hour. then they went to south america where they were pretty much worshipped by the awesome SA fans. all the while they were touring in support of nothing. i guess you could say it was almost a "lost dog" tour b/c they seemed to break out alot more rare songs on this tour.

i think the success of this tour has a little bit to do w/ the way the setlists are almost a formula anymore. they will always throw in a "rare" song to a city, especially cities they sell out all the time like boston. thats part of the reason i thought "wma/99 problems" was so cool. it wasnt just a "rare" song, it was something they never did before. im not saying they need to work w/ more rap artists, but i think this is one of the coolest things they've done in a while.

Are you suggesting fans lining up to see them without an album of new material and the the fan's ever present rarity boner resulted in the band giving in and deciding to just take the easy (nostalgic) way out?

Birds in Hell wrote: tokenistic

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