Blenheim Augustine wrote: Ten is pretty close to hair metal but is enjoyable as some hair metal is. I much prefer 1994 - 1998.
long hair=hair band?
eddie vedder is wearing a malcom x shirt and a shirt on his head. just give up.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 6:39 pm
by liebzz
I would not at all place Ten anywhere in the vicinity of hair metal at all. I mean, go back and listen to Poison and Warrant and Ratt and Motley Crue and there's not a trace of it anywhere near Ten.
Thematically, much of Ten is a third person narrative of psychological struggle and desperation to break free, not party songs about women and the token heartfelt love ballad. Musically, the production does suffer from too much of a sheen that drowns out some of the instruments in the mix, but the arc is more reminiscent of 70s classic rock than hair bands. Hair bands guitar solos were sort of derivative from Eddie Van Halen and often seemed to have no connection to their underlying song - just a big solo as an element of the formula, where McCready is clearly coming from within the songs and the delivery is closer in concept to Hendrix meets Stevie Ray Vaughn (can't say he pulled it off as well as either, but it's what it appeared he was going for).
In sum, hair bands were a big party, and well, then is nothing even remotely close to that.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 7:39 pm
by digster
I kind of feel that the "Ten is hair metal" stuff is more visual for people than sonically. They looked that part more than they actually sounded like it. Which doesn't really matter 20 years later, but still.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 7:40 pm
by digster
stip wrote:that's entirely possible. I am not crazy about all of those songs (except for Johnny Guitar and maybe Get Right), but I also don't think PJ does irreverence very well. Maybe that reflects baggage I am bringing to the table
I don't think it's always necessarily baggage someone brings to the table. Like you said, maybe PJ just doesn't do certain things well. I ran into that with some posters whenever The Fixer came up and people pointed out issues they had with that. A response was often "well, you just don't like it cause it's poppy and catchy." I don't see how it automatically is bias on the part of the person just because PJ always falls flat to them in a certain genre.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 8:08 pm
by Oh, Jimmy
digster wrote:I kind of feel that the "Ten is hair metal" stuff is more visual for people than sonically. They looked that part more than they actually sounded like it. Which doesn't really matter 20 years later, but still.
I always thought it had more to do with the way Ten sounded, compared to the way they sounded live. The people on the production side of things were used to doing things the 80s way, so it's only natural there's gonna be some crossover and stuff like Ten and Nevermind were a part of that.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 9:35 pm
by McParadigm
Oh, Jimmy wrote:I always thought it had more to do with the way Ten sounded, compared to the way they sounded live.
Thunderdrums.
Even ignoring the rest of the changes, from 1991 forward you see more and more of a live approach to drum tracking and fewer examples of that "larger than mudderfucknin life" kaboomify/verbinator cockpunch sound. The goddamn alternaminators killed the echoing, chest pounding glory that was the 1980's thunderdrum and replaced it with 'just drums.'
What did you play before 1990? The stickhit thunderdrum dongcannon, my man. What did you play afterwards? Just drums, I'm afraid. Just...drums.
Honestly, metal was already well on its way into broodtown when Ten dropped. Guns and Skid Row offered darker, angrier sounds than 80's rawk had typically cultivated, Metallica had a platinum record, and Alice had already broken into radio. Ten was definitely on the 90's side of the divide, but it had plenty of 80's technical artifacts, too...which is both totally fine and a small part of why it sounds so different from other Pearl Jam records.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 9:57 pm
by Birds in Hell
McParadigm wrote:
What did you play before 1990? The stickhit thunderdrum dongcannon, my man. What did you play afterwards? Just drums, I'm afraid. Just...drums.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that vex you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 10:40 pm
by Blenheim Augustine
warehouse wrote:
Blenheim Augustine wrote:
warehouse wrote:
Blenheim Augustine wrote: Ten is pretty close to hair metal but is enjoyable as some hair metal is. I much prefer 1994 - 1998.
long hair=hair band?
eddie vedder is wearing a malcom x shirt and a shirt on his head. just give up.
Um...give up on what? My opinion?
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 11:36 pm
by @SkitchP
stip wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:The hate for songs like: Big Wave, Johnny Guitar, Get Right, Supersonic, Ole, Green Disease, and some others. I've read many varying opinions, and of course I'm not attacking all of them, but these songs share a quality: irreverance. I believe alot of PJ fans don't get irreverent songs b/c of the era we came up in ie. alternative music "Grunge revolution" whathaveyou where everything has to be an "important" statement Like a song can't be good unless it's all gritted teeth, "deep" lyrics, and flush epic arrangements. I think somewhere along the way the band felt they wanted simple and melodic and punchy and wanted to put there energy and craft in to these qualities get some songs like that. I for one like those songs and believe it takes alot of skill and artistry to make a song sound so tossed off, and they harken back to the great lost garage rock while still sounding fresh and doing some really cool things in those songs. I do get that some of them may not be the greatest pieces of art ever, but I've seen them get alot of underserved hate.
A rare beast, indeed: a Tuolumne post I'm in complete agreement with.
See, I disagree almost entirely (remove Johnny Guitar, I like that one). Those songs sound so much like they're trying too hard to go back to being "just a couple of guys playing a rock song." They feel contrived, and most of all, boring to me. What you are describing as "sounding tossed off" to me looks like a guy leaning against a light post, snapping his fingers, just trying to show how chill he really is. I don't hear any spontaneous fun in those songs. No "came out of a jam" feel. Honestly, the last song that really worked for me on that level from them was Down.
I'd like to get on board this skitch train
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Wed March 13, 2013 11:43 pm
by warehouse
what on "ten" sounds anything remotely close to that white snake song?
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 2:13 am
by dimejinky99
It's more of a macho, yet insecure, crotch grabby yet afraid of mommy, hairspray yet wearing a hat.. Kinda vibe.
These are the wonderful contradictions that grabbed our young and naive fertile minds.
If this band turned up now, I wonder how it would go down.
Evanescence probably.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 12:41 pm
by Blenheim Augustine
warehouse wrote:what on "ten" sounds anything remotely close to that white snake song?
Nothing. I just felt like posting that.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 1:08 pm
by KurtLeon
It still confuses me how anybody can say that Black, Man Of The Hour, Immortality or Indiferrence are awesome songs, but Come Back and All Or None are boring.
How?
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 1:11 pm
by WtOB?
KurtLeon wrote:It still confuses me how anybody can say that Black, Man Of The Hour, Immortality or Indiferrence are awesome songs, but Come Back and All Or None are boring.
How?
Who says All Or None is boring ????
I want names.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 1:25 pm
by Jorge
KurtLeon wrote:It still confuses me how anybody can say that Black, Man Of The Hour, Immortality or Indiferrence are awesome songs, but Come Back and All Or None are boring.
How?
What's your point? Those are all very different songs.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 1:35 pm
by broken iris
KurtLeon wrote:It still confuses me how anybody can say that Black, Man Of The Hour, Immortality or Indiferrence are awesome songs, but Come Back and All Or None are boring.
How?
Why does that confuse you? That are huge quality and musical differences in those songs.
To me, "Come Back" has always has always felt like rushed lyrics that were squeezed into an instrumental in a conscience attempt to recreate the success of "Last Kiss" with an original track and despite it's strong ending, it remains the song that most demonstrates Vedder's declining vocal abilities.
Now I don't think "All or None" is awesome or boring, but it's long absence from setlists means a lot of people have simply lost interest in it and so it's relegated to the "oh yeah that one" bucket of PJ songs (from which they managed to rescue ATY).
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 1:57 pm
by McParadigm
broken iris wrote:"Come Back"....remains the song that most demonstrates Vedder's declining vocal abilities.
Seriously.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 2:11 pm
by Charlie
this isnt what Jorge had in mind when he made this thread but...
i dont understand how you guys love to rank everything. rank the albums. rank the years. rank ed's hair dos. rank the size of their penises. rank the songs. rank the covers. every time i see one of those threads im like "who gives a flying fuck?"
there are many many times when this board makes me realize im not as fanatical as some of you.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 2:16 pm
by EJ
Charlie wrote:this isnt what Jorge had in mind when he made this thread but...
i dont understand how you guys love to rank everything. rank the albums. rank the years. rank ed's hair dos. rank the size of their penises. rank the songs. rank the covers. every time i see one of those threads im like "who gives a flying fuck?"
there are many many times when this board makes me realize im not as fanatical as some of you.
Funny. I don't think there more than a handful of fanatics here. Probably less than a handful actually.
All the ranking stuff does is create talking points about PJ. Keeps the conversations going. I doubt anyone is obsessing over the outcomes. Big deal.
Re: Pearl Jam fan opinions that VEX, CONFOUND AND BAFFLE you
Posted: Thu March 14, 2013 2:25 pm
by broken iris
Charlie wrote:
there are many many times when this board makes me realize im not as fanatical as some of you.
Would you feel better if we started arguing Boston vs. MSG again?
