Red Mosquito

Monkey_Driven wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:You can't pick out the 'good' teams, can you?

Sure, the top 4-5 seeds in the west and top 4 seeds in the east were good teams. Just like most years.

Lol

There are two good teams in the NBA, MD. Two.

verb_to_trust wrote:There are two good teams in the NBA, MD. Two.

Oh, my bad.

Sure there are other teams that have entertaining players but they're are really only two good teams that can be considered contenders. No matter what Skip Bayless thinks that Leonard injury didn't rob the Spurs of beating that team. Those old bastards would have put up a good fight but would have worn down over the series. The Clips are a joke and the Rockets and built for the regular season (an D'antoni coached team will never win a ring). One real contender in the West and there is no point of even mentioning any also rans in the East. If Durant had stayed put there is a very good chance we still end up with the same two teams in the finals but there could be 3-4 teams in the West that could at least potentially beat them. I will always think he's a chump for joining the team he choked against. If anything he should have been more determined to come back and beat them...unless he knew deep down he couldn't beat Lebron anyway without joining up with them.

If John Cena can develop a three point shot I bet he could stick in the NBA.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:The Best Team that Jordan had to beat in the Finals would be the worst team Lebron has played in the finals.

Pretty much.

I'd take the 93 Suns over Dallas and OKC.

Joesanity wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:The Best Team that Jordan had to beat in the Finals would be the worst team Lebron has played in the finals.

Pretty much.

I'd take the 93 Suns over Dallas and OKC.

That '11 Dallas team against the '93 suns would be a fun matchup.

The West was pretty loaded in the Jordan era.

Barkley/Suns
Drexler/Blazers
Glove/Kemp Sonics
Hakeem/Rockets
Stockton/Malone Jazz
Robinson/Spurs

There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

They didn't shoot enough threes.

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

Those were great teams absolutely and I think most of those players had a more competitive nature. As a Magic fan I hated Shaq for the longest time for leaving us but Shaq and Penny were a force for a minute there in the East then. Some of those Pacers teams were nice too Reggie, Smits, Jalen, Dale and Antonio Davis. There were some dog fights back then. I loved those late 90's Knicks-Heat playoff matchups, damn did those teams hated each other and it as awesome. The league is just straight up soft now, the play and the mentality. Winning a championship isn't supposed to be easy and it is disheartening to see players seek out the path of least resistance because of what not getting a ring would do to their legacy. I can only speak for myself but does anyone else other than myself and I assume verb think they don't really deserve or earn that championship?

veddar10 wrote:

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

Those were great teams absolutely and I think most of those players had a more competitive nature. As a Magic fan I hated Shaq for the longest time for leaving us but Shaq and Penny were a force for a minute there in the East then. Some of those Pacers teams were nice too Reggie, Smits, Jalen, Dale and Antonio Davis. There were some dog fights back then. I loved those late 90's Knicks-Heat playoff matchups, damn did those teams hated each other and it as awesome. The league is just straight up soft now, the play and the mentality. Winning a championship isn't supposed to be easy and it is disheartening to see players seek out the path of least resistance because of what not getting a ring would do to their legacy. I can only speak for myself but does anyone else other than myself and I assume verb think they don't really deserve or earn that championship?

I can understand this year but do you really think last year's Cavs, the Warriors the year before, and the Spurs before that didn't "earn" their championship?

Monkey_Driven wrote:

veddar10 wrote:

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

Those were great teams absolutely and I think most of those players had a more competitive nature. As a Magic fan I hated Shaq for the longest time for leaving us but Shaq and Penny were a force for a minute there in the East then. Some of those Pacers teams were nice too Reggie, Smits, Jalen, Dale and Antonio Davis. There were some dog fights back then. I loved those late 90's Knicks-Heat playoff matchups, damn did those teams hated each other and it as awesome. The league is just straight up soft now, the play and the mentality. Winning a championship isn't supposed to be easy and it is disheartening to see players seek out the path of least resistance because of what not getting a ring would do to their legacy. I can only speak for myself but does anyone else other than myself and I assume verb think they don't really deserve or earn that championship?

I can understand this year but do you really think last year's Cavs, the Warriors the year before, and the Spurs before that didn't "earn" their championship?

I do think those teams earned them. I can't speak for Lebron but if I was him last years ring would mean 10 times to me what the ones in Miami did. I think the Spurs have earned every title. They superbly built those teams through excellent trades and drafting, not to mention a pretty great coach. The Warriors two years ago earned it too regardless of the Cavs injury issues. With the exceptions of a few seasons, Golden State in reality has been pretty shitty over the last 25 years (until recently) so I'm sure it feels great for those fans but it would be a much better story if they Warriors came back as they were constructed and got revenge instead of recruiting Kevin Durant to take care of big bad Lebron for them. I'm not just piling on KD either, I thought the decision was a soft move too but Durant took it to a new level that can never be topped unless they go undefeated next season and then Lebron joins them.

Carmello to the Cavs

i thought everyone hated the nba when that crappy pistons team won it all one year

I've always hated the NBA

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

From my perspective, those teams were great.. but to the level of the Warriors or Spurs? Jordan never had to try and take on a historically GREAT team.

Most of the teams Jordan had to beat in the finals were more like (as pointed out above) the 11 Mavs (or the 04 Pistons). A great team that had a great season.

@SkitchP wrote:

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

From my perspective, those teams were great.. but to the level of the Warriors or Spurs? Jordan never had to try and take on a historically GREAT team.

Most of the teams Jordan had to beat in the finals were more like (as pointed out above) the 11 Mavs (or the 04 Pistons). A great team that had a great season.

I'd have a hard time leaving those Stockton/Malone Jazz teams, Barkley-led Suns teams and Dexler Blazer teams off of a "best teams to never win a championship" list and they'd largely be on that list because of Jordan. I'm a huge Spurs fan, and we couldn't even sniff the finals when The Admiral was in his prime because the West was so loaded.

I believe that from the 80s through 2010, the Suns had the 3rd best record in the league. That Blazers team started 22-0 one year and I'd say it goes without saying that Stockton/Malone were a historically great duo.

run2death wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

From my perspective, those teams were great.. but to the level of the Warriors or Spurs? Jordan never had to try and take on a historically GREAT team.

Most of the teams Jordan had to beat in the finals were more like (as pointed out above) the 11 Mavs (or the 04 Pistons). A great team that had a great season.

I'd have a hard time leaving those Stockton/Malone Jazz teams, Barkley-led Suns teams and Dexler Blazer teams off of a "best teams to never win a championship" list and they'd largely be on that list because of Jordan. I'm a huge Spurs fan, and we couldn't even sniff the finals when The Admiral was in his prime because the West was so loaded.

I believe that from the 80s through 2010, the Suns had the 3rd best record in the league. That Blazers team started 22-0 one year and I'd say it goes without saying that Stockton/Malone were a historically great duo.

The Drexler led Blazer teams couldn't even beat the 90 Pistons.

The Jazz might be the closest. the Stockton Malone teams couldn't get past the Hakeem only rockets when Jordan was retired.

Other than the Jazz... Im looking at the rosters for a lot of these teams because I cant remember even a second star(im calling durant/duncan first star) on the level of Klay/Steph or Tony Parker/Manu. And there aren't any. There's a lot of good NBA players or former stars chasing rings. And if these teams were that good why weren't they making multiple finals appearances?


and all im seeing is Robert Horry. On literally every team. How is that possible.

Lebron beat an OKC team with Harden/Durant/Westbrook. A Spurs team with Duncan/Parker/Manu and a GS team with Curry/Thompson/Green

Any of those teams would beat any of the teams Jordan beat.


*side note, why are we all worried about super teams now? or guys chasing rings? I actually totally forgot about the Hakeem/Clyde/Barkley Rockets. It's been going on forever.

@SkitchP wrote:

run2death wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

bada wrote:There seems to be a concerted effort to delegitimize those 90's west teams by the hot take Fox and EPSN professional debaters....no one thought those teams were anything but excellent back then.

From my perspective, those teams were great.. but to the level of the Warriors or Spurs? Jordan never had to try and take on a historically GREAT team.

Most of the teams Jordan had to beat in the finals were more like (as pointed out above) the 11 Mavs (or the 04 Pistons). A great team that had a great season.

I'd have a hard time leaving those Stockton/Malone Jazz teams, Barkley-led Suns teams and Dexler Blazer teams off of a "best teams to never win a championship" list and they'd largely be on that list because of Jordan. I'm a huge Spurs fan, and we couldn't even sniff the finals when The Admiral was in his prime because the West was so loaded.

I believe that from the 80s through 2010, the Suns had the 3rd best record in the league. That Blazers team started 22-0 one year and I'd say it goes without saying that Stockton/Malone were a historically great duo.

The Drexler led Blazer teams couldn't even beat the 90 Pistons.

The Jazz might be the closest. the Stockton Malone teams couldn't get past the Hakeem only rockets when Jordan was retired.

Other than the Jazz... Im looking at the rosters for a lot of these teams because I cant remember even a second star(im calling durant/duncan first star) on the level of Klay/Steph or Tony Parker/Manu. And there aren't any. There's a lot of good NBA players or former stars chasing rings. And if these teams were that good why weren't they making multiple finals appearances?


and all im seeing is Robert Horry. On literally every team. How is that possible.

Lebron beat an OKC team with Harden/Durant/Westbrook. A Spurs team with Duncan/Parker/Manu and a GS team with Curry/Thompson/Green

Any of those teams would beat any of the teams Jordan beat.


*side note, why are we all worried about super teams now? or guys chasing rings? I actually totally forgot about the Hakeem/Clyde/Barkley Rockets. It's been going on forever.

Because everyone has a hot take about everything, people like easy narratives, people are jealous their team isn't a "superteam" or hasn't been one in recent history, people like a villian, etc.