Red Mosquito

VinylGuy wrote:I hate how he mutes the guitars on Severed Hand.

Other than that i dont quite remember anything about it

I've just compared directly, and, while I sort of hear what you mean and I take your point, I think it was done in service of a more balanced mix overall and some better bass articulation.
YMMV and all that, obviously.

I always find re-mixes absolutely fascinating. They can be a tricky to judge.

You've got not only your years of listening to it a certain way as a listener, but, you've also got Bo'B, who, on one hand, wants to respect the original work, but, on the other, let's face it, has to give us his subjective take, listening with fresh ears, otherwise, what's the point of asking him to take on the project in the first place, 'ya know?

stip wrote:

wease wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:So, I don't think I had ever fully listened to the 2017 Brenden O'Brien mix before yesterday. What an interesting experience that was.

I’ve still never heard it. Would you recommend it?

definitely-feels like a fresh listen

It's my go-to version of the album now.

oneway23 wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:I hate how he mutes the guitars on Severed Hand.

Other than that i dont quite remember anything about it

I've just compared directly, and, while I sort of hear what you mean and I take your point, I think it was done in service of a more balanced mix overall and some better bass articulation.
YMMV and all that, obviously.

I always find re-mixes absolutely fascinating. They can be a tricky to judge.

You've got not only your years of listening to it a certain way as a listener, but, you've also got Bo'B, who, on one hand, wants to respect the original work, but, on the other, let's face it, has to give us his subjective take, listening with fresh ears, otherwise, what's the point of asking him to take on the project in the first place, 'ya know?

yeah, it was a better groove maybe, but i really want to hear the solo and the attack of Stone at the end and its not happening

VinylGuy wrote: yeah, it was a better groove maybe, but i really want to hear the solo and the attack of Stone at the end and its not happening

I get you, VG...I can see feeling that way.

I think the 2017 remix was a major improvement, and I always liked the album. By essentially making the drums the main instrument in the mix the subtler dynamics of the songs are revealed in songs that were otherwise not well captured in the original guitars/everything mix - songs like Life Wasted, Severed Hand, Marker in the Sand etc. The big gated drums in WWS give it its character, as does the transformative big bass mix of Army Reserve. And in my opinion, Comatose is significantly improved by the reverb on the vocals and a more energetic drum-centric mix.

oneway23 wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:I hate how he mutes the guitars on Severed Hand.

Other than that i dont quite remember anything about it

I've just compared directly, and, while I sort of hear what you mean and I take your point, I think it was done in service of a more balanced mix overall and some better bass articulation.
YMMV and all that, obviously.

I always find re-mixes absolutely fascinating. They can be a tricky to judge.

You've got not only your years of listening to it a certain way as a listener, but, you've also got Bo'B, who, on one hand, wants to respect the original work, but, on the other, let's face it, has to give us his subjective take, listening with fresh ears, otherwise, what's the point of asking him to take on the project in the first place, 'ya know?

i love remixes - even ones i decide i like less than the original still reveal new things to me. its a way to rediscover a song

The Brendan O’Brien mix sucks rocks, and it sounds like he put it together in like 20 minutes.

So many details that would be subjected to minute adjustments during a mixing process are just hammered through. The results eat shit. On the one end, you end up with a weird clarity on production tricks that are meant to add subtle coloration, like the vocal echos in the first verse on army reserve…and on the other hand, adjustments that didn’t work out are never sculpted into supporting the song (see: the dynamic lifelessness of gone’s transitions from verse to chorus, or the way Marker’s chorus now feels weighted down instead of being lifted up).

stip wrote:i love remixes - even ones i decide i like less than the original still reveal new things to me. its a way to rediscover a song

Agreed...I'm a big fan when they happen.

In fact, I love the way you put in sometime last week in the DM thread; paraphrasing, apologies, but, something akin to how a radio might go between stations for a minute, throwing the balance off, allowing your ear to catch a piece of something new?

You said that in response to one of my many obnoxious production complaints and it stuck with me. I was thinking about it after the fact and it made me give an involuntary wry smile.

I often read a lot of back and forth in audio forums as to the merits, or lack thereof, on the rare occasion that an artist or band will actually allow for a full re-mix, and it always baffles me. The original isn't going anywhere. It's merely a fresh look. I wish more bands would do them.

McParadigm wrote:The Brendan O’Brien mix sucks rocks, and it sounds like he put it together in like 20 minutes.

So many details that would be subjected to minute adjustments during a mixing process are just hammered through. The results eat shit. On the one end, you end up with a weird clarity on production tricks that are meant to add subtle coloration, like the vocal echos in the first verse on army reserve…and on the other hand, adjustments that didn’t work out are never sculpted into supporting the song (see: the dynamic lifelessness of gone’s transitions from verse to chorus, or the way Marker’s chorus now feels weighted down instead of being lifted up).

I appreciate the nuanced examples in your post, but, I couldn't disagree more.

Granted, Gone has never been a personal favorite, so, it's been a while since I've paid particular attention, but, I'd argue that the drums on the original CD gave no lift whatsoever to the chorus. They're so flat and lifeless that the first big snare hit at 1:22 sounds completely dead and drains the transition of any power it should have had.

Gone isn't Given to Fly, but, I believe the newer version has improved upon that issue. The snare now has a snap to it that gives the chorus the kick-off it requires.

Unfortunately, Avocado was never gonna be a Steely Dan record. Too much peak-limiting already baked into the stems to fix that. The main complaint I have is that the re-mix is actually, shockingly, louder!...Ooof! It's, unfortunately, so close to the red, at times, that it borders on outright audible clipping; admittedly way more than I'd personally be comfortable with.

That said, I do think there are improvements made. The overall balance is much better, the toms and snare have a more natural timbre to them, and the bass is given much more prominence.

Just one opinion, but, I'm grateful for the discussion.

oneway23 wrote:I'd argue that the drums on the original CD gave no lift whatsoever to the chorus. They're so flat and lifeless that the first big snare hit at 1:22 sounds completely dead and drains the transition of any power it should have had.

The only version of the record I’ve listened to in years is the Spotify master, where the transition sounds big and cinematic.

McParadigm wrote:

oneway23 wrote:I'd argue that the drums on the original CD gave no lift whatsoever to the chorus. They're so flat and lifeless that the first big snare hit at 1:22 sounds completely dead and drains the transition of any power it should have had.

The only version of the record I’ve listened to in years is the Spotify master, where the transition sounds big and cinematic.

Well, shhiiiiit Paradigm, ya could've led with that before my crippled ass wrote a novella.
My arms are beat! I could use a nap LOL.

In any case, I've never heard it...At least, I don't think? Had no idea it was different than the 2017 mix I have, or...if I did, I'm getting senile & I've long since forgotten.

Either way, I'll investigate. Thanks!

McParadigm wrote:

oneway23 wrote:I'd argue that the drums on the original CD gave no lift whatsoever to the chorus. They're so flat and lifeless that the first big snare hit at 1:22 sounds completely dead and drains the transition of any power it should have had.

The only version of the record I’ve listened to in years is the Spotify master, where the transition sounds big and cinematic.

this is a great mix

This turns 18 today.

Fucking 18.

Damn, long time.

But for some reason, it kinda feels more, not sure why!

"darkness comes in waves;
to me, why invite it to stay?
you're one with negativity
and yes, comfort is an energy
but why let the sad song play?"

my favourite part of the album

yeah, great lyrics

I love this album very much

Love this album more than most

Got me through some tough times

Listened to this while i came home from work

loved it. I was really feeling Gone this time. I love the band's arrangements

I believe in Gone Supremacy