Red Mosquito

stip wrote:many democrats will continue to believe that Americans won't actually vote for trump, which will make it easier for pro corporate types to justify Bloomberg over sanders

Ones who truly think sanders would be horrible may also decide they'd rather have a republican win in 2016 and have a shitty president give dems a stronger hand in the more important 2020 election, especially since a Bloomberg candidacy won't hurt their senate chances - so they can block the worst excesses of a republican administration

Who are these Democrats that are so convinced that Sanders is History's Greatest Monster to the point that they'd let the GOP sniff the White House, especially with decent odds of also controlling Congress and the Supreme Court?

Can we just get a do over and start fresh?

Electromatic wrote:Can we just get a do over and start fresh?

Have they even started yet? This is all preseason.

Green Habit wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:Is there an implicit agreement that candidates aren't going to talk about the Supreme Court until the general campaign?

I've heard some talk about it on both sides, but you're correct that it doesn't get debated enough, with almost half of the court being above 80 before 2020.

I wouldn't be surprised if RBG announces her retirement on November 9th. And I bet Scalia and Kennedy are out before 2024. It's going to get a lot more press once the general campaign starts--on issues like abortion access, campaign finance, and the ACA. I think that's what's going to keep most liberals from voting for a third-party candidate like Bloomberg.

Green Habit wrote:

stip wrote:many democrats will continue to believe that Americans won't actually vote for trump, which will make it easier for pro corporate types to justify Bloomberg over sanders

Ones who truly think sanders would be horrible may also decide they'd rather have a republican win in 2016 and have a shitty president give dems a stronger hand in the more important 2020 election, especially since a Bloomberg candidacy won't hurt their senate chances - so they can block the worst excesses of a republican administration

Who are these Democrats that are so convinced that Sanders is History's Greatest Monster to the point that they'd let the GOP sniff the White House, especially with decent odds of also controlling Congress and the Supreme Court?

Yeah, I don't see that happening either. But then again, I also don't see Sanders having a real shot at the Dem nomination.

Simple Torture wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:Is there an implicit agreement that candidates aren't going to talk about the Supreme Court until the general campaign?

I've heard some talk about it on both sides, but you're correct that it doesn't get debated enough, with almost half of the court being above 80 before 2020.

I wouldn't be surprised if RBG announces her retirement on November 9th. And I bet Scalia and Kennedy are out before 2024. It's going to get a lot more press once the general campaign starts--on issues like abortion access, campaign finance, and the ACA. I think that's what's going to keep most liberals from voting for a third-party candidate like Bloomberg.

I don't think it'll be that quick for Ginsburg, it's most likely the summer of 2017 if Clinton wins. Maybe Breyer follows in 2018-19. Kennedy I could see voluntarily stepping down within the next eight years even if there's a Democratic president. Scalia, on the other hand...

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

turned2black wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Question for Hillary supporters. Do you think that the whole email thing is nothing to be concerned about? Or is it even a little worrisome as it pertains to her running for president?

It's doubtful she'll get in any real trouble for it. Essentially, the FBI director, the attorney general and Obama would have to decide to convene a grand jury. I don't see that happening.

Right, but that doesn't mean the perception of her won't be that she did something shady. Would that perception affect her results?

I thinks it's pretty bad. I was leaning Hillary (talk about the 'lesser of all evils'), and get that it was probably just some GS-11s trying to get her the info she demanded as fast possible, but having that level of classified data on her server would be a jail-able offense for anyone else. If it had just been a bunch of DoD or State cables I wouldn't care, but it's much worse than that and there is a distinct smell of State conspiring with her to hide things from federal investigators.

turned2black wrote: Yeah, I don't see that happening either. But then again, I also don't see Sanders having a real shot at the Dem nomination.

This is exactly what people said about Obama and Sanders is way more qualified than he was. I do wonder about what it would do to progressives once he gets in office and is faced with what scientists call "reality" like Obama was, and has to walk back all his leftist rantings.

It was never quite clear just how progressive Obama was. Sanders will likely jump right into executive actions and clearly understands the importance of movement building as a way to pressure and transform electoral politics. When Obama lost fights early on he was never great about calling out his enemies. They became a reason to disengage, not a rallying point for the next fight

So what will be the ramifications on Hillary's presidential bid with those potential indictment?

I don't care if you are Republican, Democrat, or whatever. How can anyone feel good that one of these two people is going to be our next leader?

UGH.

no fucking way trump wins. No fucking way. No. no no. no.

Strat wrote:no fucking way trump wins. No fucking way. No. no no. no.

How is Clinton any better?

I'm praying that it is neither, btw.

Feel the Bern.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

Strat wrote:no fucking way trump wins. No fucking way. No. no no. no.

How is Clinton any better?

How can anyone not be better than Trump?

McParadigm wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

Strat wrote:no fucking way trump wins. No fucking way. No. no no. no.

How is Clinton any better?

How can anyone not be better than Trump?

heh. Good point on a technicality, but that is just like covering a turd with a less smelly turd.

What's so terrible about Hillary? She seems like a really milquetoast candidate. Nowhere near the kind of hatemonger Trump is.

I don't really get a lot of the hatred of Hillary.

There's a lot of BS revisionist history going on with her time as Secretary of State. The right's obsession with Benghazi seems to have really polluted popular opinion. When she left that post she was largely lauded. Even McCain, during the initial shitstorm of Benghazi, said she was a very good Secretary of State. Most thought she was hamstrung by Obama's overly cautious first term on foreign affairs and therefore didn't really get a signature accomplishment.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:What's so terrible about Hillary? She seems like a really milquetoast candidate. Nowhere near the kind of hatemonger Trump is.

Exactly. Hillary is certainly a career politician, but i think deep down she is a good person.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:I don't care if you are Republican, Democrat, or whatever. How can anyone feel good that one of these two people is going to be our next leader?

UGH.

Implying that the idea of one of these two people being the next president should inspire similar feelings of (non-partisan) despondency is way off base.